Trans man concerned for kids thrown under for asking legitimate questions.

[Sojourner]

A trans male attending a virtual trans health conference was booted after expressing concern that life-changing medical interventions for minors were being fast-tracked and not given the careful deliberation and assessments it deserved. He said the main questions being asked the conference presenters was how to get "transphobic parents" to agree to treatments. He saw what he calls "social trend facilitating transition," believed that activists were taking over gender medicine, and made the mistake asking questions that activists and medical organizations involved in the transitioning didn't like. They pulled the plug on him. So many kids, influenced by irresponsible advocates are not really trans, but simply gender confused. Trans activists despise hearing this from conservatives, but will not abide it from a trans person, who is viewed as a traitor.

https://www.foxnews.com/media/trans-man-asked-simple-question-kids-trans-conference-kicked 

[DavidGYoung]

Have you noticed that she only got an explanation for being booted off WPATH after a branch of the mainstream media got involved? I spot a trend.

[Oscar_Kipling]

This is so messy. On the one hand I cannot help but think that of course some people that are experiencing a wide variety of conditions and distress that are not gender dysphoria find themselves erroneously believing that they are trans through one means or another because of the heightened profile of trans issues. This risen profile includes increased acceptance as well as increased opposition. I believe we have seen and continue to see something similar happening with medical issues such as autism, ocd , anxiety, food allergies, IBS and so on. I think that with greater acceptance, acknowledgment and attention that there will be more false positives in any number of areas. Of course I do not believe that these seeming explosions of people with these conditions can be explained away by false positives and bandwagoning... It makes sense that more people with actual conditions are publicly acknowledging their conditions and/or seeking diagnoses and treatments as the barriers of illiteracy ,shame and stigma are removed. The lay theories about these apparent explosions to my eye often verge on or fully cross over into conspiracy theory often because these theories align with pre-existing beliefs and distrust. That isn't to say that some folks are not being overzealously misdiagnosed with this or that thing due to some misguided sense of social justice, or more nefariously in order to sell more pharmaceuticals, Nor is it to say that our collective behaviors through industrial pollution or modern agriculture or social mores and so on are not having an exacerbating affect on certain conditions. I'm suspicious of the "Just so" stories that interlock and reinforce the fears and sentiments of the suburban mom who is suspicious of factory farming or the Christian who believes in the necessary increase of wickedness in the world until Jesus returns to do whatever it is he's supposed to come back and do.

In the particular case of LGBT issues, or perhaps trans issues more specifically there seems to be wild inconsistency when it comes to nailing down the proportionality of the problems we face. I do not think it can be denied that there are false positives, but it seems that when we are talking about false positives trans issues are catastrophic in scope, however when we are talking about other trans issues then trans people are merely a tiny fraction of the population and the focus is considered to be absurdly disproportionate to the problem. I think it would be great if the purpose of focusing on the issue misdiagnosing or erroneously self identifying with gender dysphoria was motivated by actually helping people to resolve their mental health issues successfully. To be fair I do believe that that is the impetus behind at least some of the spotlight, but to be honest I do not trust most of it. I do not trust that what this is ultimately about is helping folks to get the correct diagnoses, especially when it is coming from Christian conservatives because honestly I find it hard to believe that generally speaking their ultimate goal isn't to in one way or another eliminate gayness and transness and anything else that doesn't fit within their sense of moral ways to engage with gender and sexuality. This all feels so self serving and disingenuous when I cannot trust that what you (the general you) are working toward isn't better health care that serves the right people the right care, but a way to delegitimize LGBT issues piece by piece and more generally secular thought.

Don't get me wrong, The strategy\pattern isn't specific to Christians or the right, although personally I do find the disingenuousness particularly grating coming from Christians. So anyway, What do you hope that people come to understand based on this Fox news article, what effect would you like it to have in the world? Are you hoping that actual trans people can get the medical treatment that they need and desire while others with other conditions get the help that they need? if so, good on you.

[Sojourner]

Don't get me wrong, The strategy\pattern isn't specific to Christians or the right, although personally I do find the disingenuousness particularly grating coming from Christians. So anyway, What do you hope that people come to understand based on this Fox news article, what effect would you like it to have in the world? Are you hoping that actual trans people can get the medical treatment that they need and desire while others with other conditions get the help that they need? if so, good on you.

I'd like to see people who truly suffer from gender dysphoria get the treatment they seek if that will improve their quality of life. However, I'm convinced that only a tiny percentage of the tiny number of trans people need it. (Most would get more benefit from psychological counseling). I think there is a concerted effort to fabricate a bigger footprint by bolstering numbers through recruitment of anyone who even momentarily questions their gender. The medical professionals who oversee and perform the treatments make more money affirming and encouraging transitions than they do encouraging people to proceed with caution.

But my main concern is the well-being of children. There is a concerted effort by the NEA and the political left to facilitate an atmosphere conducive to the idea that non-binary gender is more prevalent than it really is. Kids are being encouraged to question and even experiment with their sexual identity before they are mature enough. Most kids who think they are non-binary have been influenced to think that way, and are actually confused by what is being promoted by those in authority. Kids are not equipped to understand the complexities of sexual identity, let alone consent to related life-altering changes to their bodies, which is why organizations like WPATH want "transphobic parents" out of the way. 

 

[Oscar_Kipling]

Why are you convinced that only a tiny percentage of the tiny number of trans people need it? Also what specifically is the "it" that you are referring to regarding treatment? Additionally what sort of psychological counseling do you believe would be beneficial to most trans people and why?

I believe that there is some overzealousness when it comes to diagnosing gender dysphoria, although I would not want to suggest that this is nearly as pervasive in the professional medical community as I suspect its more of a layperson issue than it is an issue in the medical community...just as I suspect that there are similar proportions of amateur diagnoses of say autism while it is much more infrequent within the professional medical community. I think it would ridiculous to suggest that doctors aren't are not influenced by the zeitgeist but they are much better equipped to mitigate these issues than lay people.

What do you believe is the motive behind the concerted effort to artificially inflate the apparent frequency of non-binary (and I presume you also mean trans) people in the population?

I believe that most kids that believe anything have been influenced to some degree or another, and adults as well for that matter. I do not know that this is what I would use to primarily distinguish actual cases of anything from false positives. I haven't been a kid in a while, but I'm skeptical of the general susceptibility of children to changing their gender identity because they are encouraged to interrogate their gender identity.   Of course it can and has happened, but I tend to think that it isn't nearly as precarious a thing as is being proposed... I think about as many children are confused by the mere introduction of the question and the social exposure to gender identity issues as there are kids that believe they have OCD or anxiety or autism. That is to say not none, but also not  an epidemic. Anyway all that to ask, what leads you to believe that most children that believe they are non-binary (and i'm presuming also trans) have been influenced to believe that is so when they are in all actuality simply confused by what is being promoted by those in authority?

Haha i'm not sure that many people are equipped to understand all the complexities of gender identity let alone kids, but that isn't to say that there are not simplified concepts that children can grasp and can mull over for themselves. I think that it is one thing to say that children cannot understand all of the complexities and something else entirely to say that any and all exposure to the concepts should be kept from them lest they get confused and have their sex organs removed before they learn algebra. To my knowledge this is not the goal of WPATH or really any organization, but if you believe it is i'd have to ask why you think that?

[Athanasius]

We talking about me again?

[RabbiKnife]

Nah

The discussion appears to be about cultural ideology and not about actual life…

[Oscar_Kipling]

We talking about me again?

I don't know, I feel like we've traversed some similar ground, and i'd be happy to continue discussing these topics with you.   

[Oscar_Kipling]

Nah

The discussion appears to be about cultural ideology and not about actual life…

Right, super useful smoking hot take as usual, I wish I had life nailed down half as hard as you do.

[Athanasius]

We talking about me again?

I don't know, I feel like we've traversed some similar ground, and i'd be happy to continue discussing these topics with you.

We could, but you're doing a lot of theorising from the outside, and I'm not sure I'm really interested in that (with anyone).

For instance, you think a multiple thousands percentage increase of "trans identifying" individuals - almost all of whom are younger girls, in an inversion of the historical norm - "isn't nearly as precarious a thing as is being proposed". But that thing you tend to think isn't so precarious is going to lead to an explosion of the so-called "detrans" population, particularly around lawsuits involving the improper administration of HRT and the quickness with which surgery, like the euphemistic "top surgery" (read: bilateral mastectomy), is performed.

That isn't even to touch upon the transformation of the word "transsexual" to "trans" as an umbrella term that is meant to apply to everyone, including those who "transition" by becoming theythems (she/they), notions of "trans masc" and "trans femme", and so on. Or you know, the "non-transitioning trans person". Least of all, the pronoun squad and gender neutral activists.

It's a big old giant mess of social hysteria, and it's severely damaging a generation already damaged by COVID. I think I said it before, but I have no doubt future humans are going to look back on these years and use terms like "generation Queer" to discuss the medical horror show currently being offered as progress, inclusive, a celebration of diversity, etc.

So I guess the question is: do you know, or do you think -- because I know.

[Rebecca]

A trans male attending a virtual trans health conference was booted after expressing concern that life-changing medical interventions for minors were being fast-tracked and not given the careful deliberation and assessments it deserved. He said the main questions being asked the conference presenters was how to get "transphobic parents" to agree to treatments. He saw what he calls "social trend facilitating transition," believed that activists were taking over gender medicine, and made the mistake asking questions that activists and medical organizations involved in the transitioning didn't like. They pulled the plug on him. So many kids, influenced by irresponsible advocates are not really trans, but simply gender confused. Trans activists despise hearing this from conservatives, but will not abide it from a trans person, who is viewed as a traitor.

https://www.foxnews.com/media/trans-man-asked-simple-question-kids-trans-conference-kicked

Seen a couple interviews of this person he  shows exactly the ugly truth of the trans crap. Sin brings on guilt, the trans activists are like cult. Most cults use sex, in some form,  to control others. Jim Jones would abuse kids then use the guilt of the parents to control parents. 
This trans stuff did not happen overnight . The story of Samson  is a clear picture of sin taking over. A little bit at a time the old frog in the pot. In the 80s i worked at  the local school K-12 small town... That school would take girls to PP without parent knowledge but had to  call home to offer an aspirin. IMO too many parents were willing to accept that so they did not have to deal with the whole idea.  We as a nation have giving the raising and training of our children over to the state.  Samson started giving in,  the bond of parent and child was showing the  bindings of sin..... That same school taught sex ed " one of the advantages of oral sex no one gets pregnant. Dividing the parents from the kids has been going on long before the 80s. How many parents listened to Dr. Spock  while ignoring the Scriptures. 
Our world today is the result of toying with sin as Samson did little bites her and there then the cake is gone.
Should we give up and say I cant do anything now... Samson did not give up he crushed the whole bunch.
We need to get involved we need to stand as Daniel did . He stood in the politics of his day. Not bending he stood for the Lord God.
I am reminded of the childhood song
Dare to be a Daniel
Dare to stand alone
Dare to have a purpose firm
Dare to make it known

[Athanasius]

The hysteria also unfortunately harms those - rare minority we may be - that actually need (quite serious) help, and we don't get it, or we're assumed to be one and the same with the dreadful activists, etc.

[Rebecca]

Mental  health has been avoided by much of church for way too many years.  Times past we would pray for a broken bone or illness. Way too often mental problems were considered sin or demonic oppression. Even demonic possession depending on ones denomination.
Nice to see how that is changing  over the years.

[Oscar_Kipling]

We talking about me again?

I don't know, I feel like we've traversed some similar ground, and i'd be happy to continue discussing these topics with you.

We could, but you're doing a lot of theorising from the outside, and I'm not sure I'm really interested in that (with anyone).

For instance, you think a multiple thousands percentage increase of "trans identifying" individuals - almost all of whom are younger girls, in an inversion of the historical norm - "isn't nearly as precarious a thing as is being proposed". But that thing you tend to think isn't so precarious is going to lead to an explosion of the so-called "detrans" population, particularly around lawsuits involving the improper administration of HRT and the quickness with which surgery, like the euphemistic "top surgery" (read: bilateral mastectomy), is performed.

That isn't even to touch upon the transformation of the word "transsexual" to "trans" as an umbrella term that is meant to apply to everyone, including those who "transition" by becoming theythems (she/they), notions of "trans masc" and "trans femme", and so on. Or you know, the "non-transitioning trans person". Least of all, the pronoun squad and gender neutral activists.

It's a big old giant mess of social hysteria, and it's severely damaging a generation already damaged by COVID. I think I said it before, but I have no doubt future humans are going to look back on these years and use terms like "generation Queer" to discuss the medical horror show currently being offered as progress, inclusive, a celebration of diversity, etc.

So I guess the question is: do you know, or do you think -- because I know.

Oh I don't know, I guess I do think, but I think you think too, I think we all think because knowing the actual future is something that I do not believe people have access to. But okay, I'm not a trans person so if it is your want you can dismiss whatever it is that I think of course.

Before I slink off though I'd want to clarify that I didn't even remotely say that the multiple thousand percentage increase in trans identifying individuals isn't so precarious, I was very clearly and specifically talking about how introducing the idea of gender identity and questions thereof is not the napalm-like conflagrant that burns down a child's identity. Since I must, i'll explain that I believe that a child that is in such a condition as to be vulnerable to having their gender identity so twisted and confused by being introduced to these concepts and questions that they actually take non-reversible physical steps toward changing their gender identity in error, then that child is probably in a bad situation that leaves them vulnerable to a plethora of dangers and abuses. They are in fact in a precarious position, but that would be the case whether or not they ever heard of gender identity or not. I theorize that these children are many of the same children that find themselves being taken advantage of by abusers of all sorts and generally have a tough time navigating their lives and building healthy relationships and habits. Maybe I'm wrong but i'd theorize that more vulnerable confused children with undiagnosed/misdiagnosed mental health issues will be sexually abused than will ever get mastectomies. Why bring that up? because we certainly don't call any generation the sexually abused generation even though you could pick any 20th -21st century generation and call them that with more credibility than "generation Queer". I think what we actually end up with is a situation where we currently are and have for a very long time been failing children in a much more general sense. The fraction of vulnerable girls that are so poorly taken care of by their guardians and medical community that they actually have body parts removed in lieu of actually helping them with their actual problems will not have found themselves in that situation because they saw too many tic-toks where quasi celebrities come out as trans it will be because they were failed in a million ways before that point....I think folks will blame the easy target because solving the underlying problems with children is pervasive, expensive difficult, time consuming and would require so much more of all of us than we ae probably willing to actually do...so I mean that is what I think more or less.

[Athanasius]

Before I slink off though I'd want to clarify that I didn't even remotely say that the multiple thousand percentage increase in trans identifying individuals isn't so precarious, I was very clearly and specifically talking about how introducing the idea of gender identity and questions thereof is not the napalm-like conflagrant that burns down a child's identity.

The issue is that there's no such thing as a "gender identity". It's a confusing concept, it's wrong, and it lies at the foundation of that multiple thousand per cent increase in trans-identifying individuals (particularly among girls). If a girl doesn't like "girl things" or is uncomfortable with her body, it's no longer the case that she's a girl with different interests than most or uncomfortable with her body as the vast majority of girls are. Now it's a sign that she might be trans -- a boy, or non-binary, or in possession of some other identity along the supposed spectrum of gender identities (read: expression).

It's a concept that purports to give meaning to confusion. And because it's supposedly identity, it's unassailable. I'd say that's precarious, but also unnecessary. There's no need to induce the thought, "but what if I'm really..." in a young person. For those who are already there, competent help is required. For everyone else, "but are you really sure? How can you know if you've never tried?" isn't the hallmark of a healthy education.

I believe that a child that is in such a condition as to be vulnerable to having their gender identity so twisted and confused by being introduced to these concepts and questions that they actually take non-reversible physical steps toward changing their gender identity in error, then that child is probably in a bad situation that leaves them vulnerable to a plethora of dangers and abuses.

It could be that they are, and certainly, this has been the case. It could also be that "trans" is socially the thing to do, and we see a multiple thousands per cent increase among girls because girls are the sex more pliable by the social thing -- self-harm and suicide being the well-known examples, despite also being self-destructive. ROGD, as Littman would put it, and as everyone hates.

This brings us back to the notion of "gender identity", which is a concept that sows confusion.

because we certainly don't call any generation the sexually abused generation even though you could pick any 20th -21st century generation and call them that with more credibility than "generation Queer".

This is a bizarre comparison. Was there a time during the 20th - 21st centuries when sexual abuse was taught as good, and to not accept so was to risk job loss, a mob, ostracisation, etc.?

I think what we actually end up with is a situation where we currently are and have for a very long time been failing children in a much more general sense.

That, broader society has.