A prophet like unto Moses

[Quantrill]

Minus the animus and disputation that recently bogged down this thread, I'd like to point out that the crux of the OP has yet to be addressed by anyone. That being, the list of parallel life events and attributes shared by Moses and Jesus -- which evince His being the prophet in question. To reiterate:

1. Both Moses and Jesus were spared from a massacre of infants.
2. Both appeared as God's spokesman after 400 years of His silence, during a period of Gentile oppression.
3. Both instituted a covenant in which blood preserved the faithful from God's judgment.
4. Both enjoyed an exceptionally close realtionship with God.
5. Both wielded supernatural power as divine credentials.
6. Both interceded for the people, seeking to shield them from God's judgment.
7. Both glowed with God's glory after being in His direct presence.

Of the billions of people throughout the history of the human race, all 7 of these are true only of Jesus and Moses. These striking parallels make Jesus "like" Moses in a very profound way, and this fact stands on its own merit even if one favors the view that Deut 18:15 refers to a succession of prophets rather than a particular individual.

On that last point, John 1:21 reveals that Jews of the first century were anticipating the appearance of a particular prophet associated with the coming of the Messiah. The context clearly indicates they were looking for someone that had been foretold. If the prophet they spoke of was not the one referred to by Moses, then who was he? Moreover, that passage is undoubtedly what Jesus meant when He said Moses wrote of Him. (John 5:45-47)

 That is a lie.  How have I not addressed it?

Quantrill

[Sojourner]

You seem to go to great lengths to be abrasive and combative. I clearly stated that no one has specifically addressed the list of parallels between Moses and Jesus that evince His being the prophet in question. If you have done so, provide the quote. If you have not, then it looks like you're the liar, not me.

[Fenris]

Minus the animus and disputation that recently bogged down this thread, I'd like to point out that the crux of the OP has yet to be addressed by anyone. That being, the list of parallel life events and attributes shared by Moses and Jesus -- which evince His being the prophet in question.

Yes, these are interesting parallels.  And truth be told, much of what Jesus had to say was not objectionable at all for the Jewish listener. Where we run into problems is with two other, extraordinary claims about him. Namely 1) being the messiah; and 2) being god incarnate.

1 is a problem in that Jesus did not fulfill the messianic prophecies. At least, not in the way that Jews expected it, at least as relates to the plain text of the bible. He was not the sole messiah claimant in Judea in the first century and not the only one rejected.

2 is a bigger problem. It runs counter to Jewish theology and as such it is insurmountable for a religiously literate and practicing Jew.

[Sojourner]

Fenris, I fully respect that you hold to your convictions as strongly as I do, and recognize that some doctrines of Christianity seem far-fetched to the Jewish mind. And while I'm sure it seems condescending to suggest spiritual blindness, I honestly believe that after God has brought in the full number of Gentiles, Jesus will be revealed for who He is to unbelieving Jews that already belong to Him. Christianity has its roots in Judaism and the trajectory of both will one day converge. We'll have to wait until the last trumpet sounds at the end of this age to see the gathering of all God's servants and the completion of his glorious plan of redemption.

[Athanasius]

A moment of silence for Quantrill.

...carry on.

[RabbiKnife]

A moment of silence for Quantrill.

...carry on.

*snort*

[Fenris]

Fenris, I fully respect that you hold to your convictions as strongly as I do, and recognize that some doctrines of Christianity seem far-fetched to the Jewish mind. And while I'm sure it seems condescending to suggest spiritual blindness, I honestly believe that after God has brought in the full number of Gentiles, Jesus will be revealed for who He is to unbelieving Jews that already belong to Him. Christianity has its roots in Judaism and the trajectory of both will one day converge. We'll have to wait until the last trumpet sounds at the end of this age to see the gathering of all God's servants and the completion of his glorious plan of redemption.

Well, I guess we will find out eventually.

[Sojourner]

1 is a problem in that Jesus did not fulfill the messianic prophecies. At least, not in the way that Jews expected it, at least as relates to the plain text of the bible. He was not the sole messiah claimant in Judea in the first century and not the only one rejected.

You're right. There were many individuals before and after Jesus who claimed to be the messiah. However, He is the only messianic figure with a current following of 2 billion people worldwide--nearly 2000 years later. Indeed, He foretold that His kingdom would start out small and grow dramatically, like a mustard seed. (Mark 4:30-32) Oh, and He's also the only one who foretold the impending desolation of Jerusalem:

“But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation has come near. 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, and let those who are inside the city depart, and let not those who are out in the country enter it, 22 for these are days of vengeance, to fulfill all that is written. 23 Alas for women who are pregnant and for those who are nursing infants in those days! For there will be great distress upon the earth and wrath against this people. 24 They will fall by the edge of the sword and be led captive among all nations, and Jerusalem will be trampled underfoot by the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.  (Luke 21:20-24)

For the days will come upon you when your enemies will barricade you and surround you and hem you in on every side. 44 They will level you to the ground— you and the children within your walls. They will not leave one stone on another, because you did not recognize the time of your visitation from God.” (Luke 19:43-44)

These tragic events occurred some 40 years after Jesus said it would. Point is, among the messiah claimants, He stands out prominently in the crowd.

[Fenris]

You're right. There were many individuals before and after Jesus who claimed to be the messiah. However, He is the only messianic figure with a current following of 2 billion people worldwide--nearly 2000 years later.

That's true. And yet as Jews we are don't pay weight to what the rest of the world says our believes. We have a covenant with God that has terms and conditions, and that is what binds our behavior and beliefs.

And the small matter that Jesus did not fulfill the prophecies as expected.

These tragic events occurred some 40 years after Jesus said it would. Point is, among the messiah claimants, He stands out prominently in the crowd.

Since we don't have a good date for when the NT was written, we don't know that it was something that he actually said. It could have been written after the events in question actually occurred.

And predicting the future doesn't make one a prophet or the messiah. Deuteronomy 13:

If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a sign or wonder, and if the sign or wonder spoken of takes place, and the prophet says, “Let us follow other gods” (gods you have not known) “and let us worship them,” you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. The Lord your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul. It is the Lord your God you must follow, and him you must revere. Keep his commands and obey him; serve him and hold fast to him.

[RabbiKnife]

Ummmm...

No.

[Rebecca]

Minus the animus and disputation that recently bogged down this thread, I'd like to point out that the crux of the OP has yet to be addressed by anyone. That being, the list of parallel life events and attributes shared by Moses and Jesus -- which evince His being the prophet in question.

Yes, these are interesting parallels.  And truth be told, much of what Jesus had to say was not objectionable at all for the Jewish listener. Where we run into problems is with two other, extraordinary claims about him. Namely 1) being the messiah; and 2) being god incarnate.

1 is a problem in that Jesus did not fulfill the messianic prophecies. At least, not in the way that Jews expected it, at least as relates to the plain text of the bible. He was not the sole messiah claimant in Judea in the first century and not the only one rejected.

2 is a bigger problem. It runs counter to Jewish theology and as such it is insurmountable for a religiously literate and practicing Jew.

Fulfilling the Messianic prophecies the way God wanted is what is important . God new The CHrist would be rejected all went according to God's plan.

[Fenris]

Fulfilling the Messianic prophecies the way God wanted is what is important .

Ah. But God communicated what His plans were to man. For example, elsewhere I shared the second half of Ezekiel 37: A vision of the messianic era. It hasn't happened yet. So Jews conclude that the messiah has not yet come.

God new The CHrist would be rejected all went according to God's plan.

I don't find that in my bible.

[Rebecca]

Fulfilling the Messianic prophecies the way God wanted is what is important .

Ah. But God communicated what His plans were to man. For example, elsewhere I shared the second half of Ezekiel 37: A vision of the messianic era. It hasn't happened yet. So Jews conclude that the messiah has not yet come. 

God new The CHrist would be rejected all went according to God's plan.

I don't find that in my bible.

Knowing you will have a different take but here it is ... Isa_53:3  He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

Judism is an antichrist religon. What you are saying is to be expected.

[RabbiKnife]

I wouldn’t say “antiChrist “

If anything, Judaism is a pro christ-  pro anointed one — pro messiah religion.

It looks for a future messiah

It does not recognize Jesus of Nazareth as the messiah as Christianity does

[Sojourner]

Rabbiknife posted while I was typing the same thing he wrote, but I'll finish it anyway:

I would not classify Judaism as antichrist as typically defined. "Christ" is the NT equivalent of "messiah," which Jews believe very strongly in. They simply don't believe Jesus fulfilled the requirements of the messiah. They just fail to see that the cross had to come before the throne, and the crown of thorns before the diadem.  But I believe the day is approaching when the Jews will look upon the one who was pierced with sorrow, and finally see Jesus for who He is.