Not All of Nicene Creed of 381 A.D. Is Supported By Scripture

[Pilgrim]

You're going to have to do far better

I'll leave it to God to cause the increase.   

Oh, we'll edify you alright.

Still waiting, brother.

Whenever you address the scripture where Jesus is specifying Himself like John 14:6 & John 5:22-23 and nothing about the Holy Spirit, that would be a help, because I believe that is why there are no scriptures about worshiping the Holy Spirit.  Kind of a given when you take Him at His words as in heed His words.

Thanks for sharing.

[Athanasius]

You're going to have to do far better

I'll leave it to God to cause the increase.   

Oh, we'll edify you alright.

Still waiting, brother.

Whenever you address the scripture where Jesus is specifying Himself like John 14:6 & John 5:22-23 and nothing about the Holy Spirit, that would be a help, because I believe that is why there are no scriptures about worshiping the Holy Spirit.  Kind of a given when you take Him at His words as in heed His words.

Thanks for sharing.

You're here to demonstrate that (1) worshipping the Holy Spirit isn't a practice supported by Scripture, and (2) that the support for worshipping the Holy Spirit is anti-Christ. We're waiting for you to make the argument, as for the moment, all you have are assertions:

- You don't see evidence from Scripture for worshipping the Holy Spirit (it's a negative, so of course you're going to leave this at that)
- We only ought to worship Jesus because that's honoring to Jesus and the Father
- Implied: worshipping the Holy Spirit is dishonoring to Jesus and the Father
- Asserted: Worshipping the Holy Spirit is anti-Christ in its origin

Are you going to connect the dots? I don't think anyone is interested in attempting to refute an argument they themselves have to construct.

I'm not your brother, and the thing about people who go around using such phrasing is that they often find themselves invited to post elsewhere. So, provide an argument (you've had 6 years minimum to think about it) or like, post funny animal pics or something.

[RabbiKnife]

You’ve already admitted that an argument from silence is meaningless

Second you’ve admitted that in the absence of a direct quote from God that Jesus is God, then we are left with an appeal to a logical and rational interpretation from the entirety of Scripture

So enough of the Johnny One Note already

No one accepts your premise, and it appears that no one has any interest in listening to you demand that we prove a negative

All persons of the Trinity are deity and all are worthy of praise and worship, you hyper literalization in search of a charismatic demon to fight notwithstanding

[Athanasius]

This one seems to have left of his own accord. If so, gotta salute that.

[RabbiKnife]

As the good Senator from the state of Utah says, “self-deportation.”

[theMad-JW]

NONE of it is!

[Titus]

You may have come across a few sites that has a scriptural reference or two for each line of that modified Nicene Creed of 381 A.D. but I wish to address that there are 2 lines that has scriptural reference to it that does not really teach nor prove that line in that Nicene Creed.  One such site is a Christian forum below listed as their Statement of Faith.

https://www.christianforums.com/threads/site-rules-updated-8-27-18.7905078/#post-73113074

Like giving the credit & the title of the Giver of Life to the Holy Spirit per the reference of Genesis 1:2 when Jesus testified He is the Bread of life that gives life to the world per John 6:30-40.  You would think they would have chosen 2 Corinthians 3:6 for that line since some Bible versions err by capitalizing spirit in that verse.  Since numbered verses and chapters were not done back then in the Bible, nor was spirit capitalized back then neither, I can see how the Nicene council made that mistake.

Is it a mistake?  Scripture tells us the role of the Holy Spirit is to testify of the Son thru us John 15:26-27 as the Spirit seeks to glorify the Son John 16:14  Then you have Jesus telling us Who the scripture is supposed to testify of in coming to for life in John 5:39-40.  So 2 Corinthians 3:6 & John 6:63 is more of a vital principle or a mental disposition rather than referring to the Person of the Holy Spirit.

Then you have that line about worshiping the Holy Ghost with the Father & the Son.  Matthew 3:16-17 is about the Holy Spirit & the Father bearing witness of the Son at Jesus's water baptism by John the Baptist.  It does not teach nor support the practice of worshiping the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son.

Is there any scripture reproving that practice?  Other than what the role of the Holy Spirit would lead us otherwise to do which is to testify of the Son to glorify the Son which also has to apply to worship, these scriptures seems to stress this that we cannot honor the Father by honoring the Holy Spirit, but by only honoring the Son because the moment we stop honoring the Son, we are no longer honoring the Father nor led by the Holy Spirit in us to do that.

John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him. KJV

Verse 22 is a standard of judgment over all saved believers. 

The latter part of verse 23 leaves no wiggle room for worshiping the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son.  This would include trying to honor the Father by honoring the "Trinity" when it is the Father's will to come to Him by the only way provided; and that is by the only way of the Son.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.


I know the serpent deceived Eve into doubting God's words by implying "Did God really say that?"  Then we have this;

John 10:1Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.

7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

All invitations points to the Son;  the scripture points to the Son & the indwelling Holy Spirit points to the Son, in living that reconciled relationship with God the Father thru Jesus Christ, aka the Bridegroom.

In these "slain in the spirit" and the "holy laughter" movement for an example, a spirit visit bringing these signs and lying wonders.  For some strange reason they assume that was the Holy Spirit and then they address the Holy Spirit in worship to invoke those visitations again and it happens again and so who is to tell them otherwise that it was not the Holy Spirit when they were praying to Him since God is not the author of confusion?  Proverbs 25:26-28 & 1 Corinthians 14:32-33 & 2 Corinthians 11:3-4 & 2 Corinthians 13:5 & 1 John 4:1-6 & Isaiah 8:19 & 1 Timothy 4:1 & Revelation 2:18-25 & 2 Thessalonians 2:1-15

So is Jesus really the only way to come to God the Father by, since the Son alone answers prayers so that the Father may only be glorified in the Son for answers to prayers?  John 14:13-14 

Would that explain why it was not the Holy Spirit answering prayers directed to Him?  1 Timothy 2:5 & Hebrews 4:12-16

Does this apostasy happen every time when believers engage in this iniquity out of ignorance?  No.  But this certainly explains why apostasy happens.

Jesus seems to infer that Nicene Council for creating that ecumenical creed as gathering grapes of thorns & figs of thistles in of verses 13-16 in Matthew 7:13-27 for broadening the way in verses 13-14.  Even Ernest Angeley's Healing Crusades in the early 1980's who would announce the Holy Spirit coming on already saved believers to bring about healings or casting out of devils can be seen in verses 21-23 for which they would fall backward in a loss of self control for these "miracles" to come about as Jesus points that out for not heeding His words in verses 24-27.

The solution?  Narrow the way back to the straight gate or else risk being found in iniquity and be left behind from the Marriage Supper when the Bridegroom comes.

Luke 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.
25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:
26 Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.
27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.
28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.
29 And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God.
30 And, behold, there are last which shall be first, and there are first which shall be last.

Do you all see my concern coming out of the scripture for the body of Christ in these latter days?

As it is, not all of the Nicene Creed of 381 A.D. is supported by scripture.

Is this the forum for hashing this out with the scripture because that other forum will not even discuss it being how it is their Statement of Faith.

Wow, that's quite an OP.

Remember that John 5:22 is not meant to stand alone in Scripture. It coincides with John 8:15. Why do these verses seem to contradict each other? Well, John 6:44 and John 14:6 also seem to contradict each other, but Jesus is using this seeming contradiction to make a point.

The only way these verses contradict each other is if one views Jesus and the Father as separate individuals. That's one thing, among many, that the churches will not show, or teach, you.

[Athanasius]

That's one thing, among many, that the churches will not show, or teach, you.

Nope, we're not going to play "the churches" game as if you're sharing some gnostic wisdom among the maybe-maybe-not true believers™. You can make points without dragging through the mud some nebulous idea of "the churches".

[Titus]

That's one thing, among many, that the churches will not show, or teach, you.

Nope, we're not going to play "the churches" game as if you're sharing some gnostic wisdom among the maybe-maybe-not true believers™. You can make points without dragging through the mud some nebulous idea of "the churches".

All churches are different.

Most don't teach Scripture as it is written in the Bible.

That's all.

If I'm not allowed to say that, I'm not sure what this site is all about.

Can't talk about Bible versions, can't speak of churches. 

[Athanasius]

All churches are different.

Most don't teach Scripture as it is written in the Bible.

That's all.

If I'm not allowed to say that, I'm not sure what this site is all about.

Can't talk about Bible versions, can't speak of churches. 

This is not a place to make irresponsible, unjustified, and unwarranted claims, and it's not the place to bear false witness against "the churches" or to do as you're doing now by misrepresenting the circumstance.

Obviously, this is an a priori rejection of the particular idea that you teach the Bible, unlike most of "the churches". If you want to approach bible versions and issues within the church in good faith (such as the recent Church of England synod), then go for it. That is, speak with specificity.

If you want to set yourself up as a giver of insight mistaught, withheld, or whatever by 'the churches', then we're the wrong crowd.

Locking this for now.