Not All of Nicene Creed of 381 A.D. Is Supported By Scripture

[Pilgrim]

You may have come across a few sites that has a scriptural reference or two for each line of that modified Nicene Creed of 381 A.D. but I wish to address that there are 2 lines that has scriptural reference to it that does not really teach nor prove that line in that Nicene Creed.  One such site is a Christian forum below listed as their Statement of Faith.

https://www.christianforums.com/threads/site-rules-updated-8-27-18.7905078/#post-73113074

Like giving the credit & the title of the Giver of Life to the Holy Spirit per the reference of Genesis 1:2 when Jesus testified He is the Bread of life that gives life to the world per John 6:30-40.  You would think they would have chosen 2 Corinthians 3:6 for that line since some Bible versions err by capitalizing spirit in that verse.  Since numbered verses and chapters were not done back then in the Bible, nor was spirit capitalized back then neither, I can see how the Nicene council made that mistake.

Is it a mistake?  Scripture tells us the role of the Holy Spirit is to testify of the Son thru us John 15:26-27 as the Spirit seeks to glorify the Son John 16:14  Then you have Jesus telling us Who the scripture is supposed to testify of in coming to for life in John 5:39-40.  So 2 Corinthians 3:6 & John 6:63 is more of a vital principle or a mental disposition rather than referring to the Person of the Holy Spirit.

Then you have that line about worshiping the Holy Ghost with the Father & the Son.  Matthew 3:16-17 is about the Holy Spirit & the Father bearing witness of the Son at Jesus's water baptism by John the Baptist.  It does not teach nor support the practice of worshiping the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son.

Is there any scripture reproving that practice?  Other than what the role of the Holy Spirit would lead us otherwise to do which is to testify of the Son to glorify the Son which also has to apply to worship, these scriptures seems to stress this that we cannot honor the Father by honoring the Holy Spirit, but by only honoring the Son because the moment we stop honoring the Son, we are no longer honoring the Father nor led by the Holy Spirit in us to do that.

John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him. KJV

Verse 22 is a standard of judgment over all saved believers. 

The latter part of verse 23 leaves no wiggle room for worshiping the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son.  This would include trying to honor the Father by honoring the "Trinity" when it is the Father's will to come to Him by the only way provided; and that is by the only way of the Son.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.


I know the serpent deceived Eve into doubting God's words by implying "Did God really say that?"  Then we have this;

John 10:1Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.

7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

All invitations points to the Son;  the scripture points to the Son & the indwelling Holy Spirit points to the Son, in living that reconciled relationship with God the Father thru Jesus Christ, aka the Bridegroom.

In these "slain in the spirit" and the "holy laughter" movement for an example, a spirit visit bringing these signs and lying wonders.  For some strange reason they assume that was the Holy Spirit and then they address the Holy Spirit in worship to invoke those visitations again and it happens again and so who is to tell them otherwise that it was not the Holy Spirit when they were praying to Him since God is not the author of confusion?  Proverbs 25:26-28 & 1 Corinthians 14:32-33 & 2 Corinthians 11:3-4 & 2 Corinthians 13:5 & 1 John 4:1-6 & Isaiah 8:19 & 1 Timothy 4:1 & Revelation 2:18-25 & 2 Thessalonians 2:1-15

So is Jesus really the only way to come to God the Father by, since the Son alone answers prayers so that the Father may only be glorified in the Son for answers to prayers?  John 14:13-14 

Would that explain why it was not the Holy Spirit answering prayers directed to Him?  1 Timothy 2:5 & Hebrews 4:12-16

Does this apostasy happen every time when believers engage in this iniquity out of ignorance?  No.  But this certainly explains why apostasy happens.

Jesus seems to infer that Nicene Council for creating that ecumenical creed as gathering grapes of thorns & figs of thistles in of verses 13-16 in Matthew 7:13-27 for broadening the way in verses 13-14.  Even Ernest Angeley's Healing Crusades in the early 1980's who would announce the Holy Spirit coming on already saved believers to bring about healings or casting out of devils can be seen in verses 21-23 for which they would fall backward in a loss of self control for these "miracles" to come about as Jesus points that out for not heeding His words in verses 24-27.

The solution?  Narrow the way back to the straight gate or else risk being found in iniquity and be left behind from the Marriage Supper when the Bridegroom comes.

Luke 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.
25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:
26 Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.
27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.
28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.
29 And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God.
30 And, behold, there are last which shall be first, and there are first which shall be last.

Do you all see my concern coming out of the scripture for the body of Christ in these latter days?

As it is, not all of the Nicene Creed of 381 A.D. is supported by scripture.

Is this the forum for hashing this out with the scripture because that other forum will not even discuss it being how it is their Statement of Faith.

[Pilgrim]

If this thread is better suited for Controversial sub forum, so be it, but I figured it also falls under Theology since Theology should be proven & supported by scripture.

[RabbiKnife]

So the concern is not with the Nicene Creed itself, but with what some 21st century website promoter has chosen as the "Scriptural prooftext" for the Creed?

You'll pardon me if I don't see the issue.

You don't need the Creed or a modern reference to it to teach false doctrine or to engage in stupid fleshly religion.  You also don't need the Creed or a modern reference to it to teach truth.


Just ignore those that add to Scripture.  The Creed itself is not Scripture, but only intended to be a shorthand synopsis of "this is what we believe the bible teaches, in part".

Nothing salvific about the Creed, or anyone's commentary on it, right or wrong.

Seems to me you might have a solution that is in search of a problem.

[Pilgrim]

So the concern is not with the Nicene Creed itself, but with what some 21st century website promoter has chosen as the "Scriptural prooftext" for the Creed?

I do have a problem with the creed as it is teaching a false witness about the Holy Spirit and laying the groundwork for apostasy to occur.

You'll pardon me if I don't see the issue.

The issue is keeping the faith which is the good fight.

You don't need the Creed or a modern reference to it to teach false doctrine or to engage in stupid fleshly religion.  You also don't need the Creed or a modern reference to it to teach truth.

Just ignore those that add to Scripture.  The Creed itself is not Scripture, but only intended to be a shorthand synopsis of "this is what we believe the bible teaches, in part".

Nothing salvific about the Creed, or anyone's commentary on it, right or wrong.

Nothing wrong? 

How about proving by the scripture that it teaches us to worship the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son when scripture narrows that worship of the Father by only honoring the Son?

Indeed, Paul seems to stress this obedience to the church in having this mind of Christ in worship while in his absence.

Philippians 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Yes, there is a Triune God and yes there are 3 Witnesses within the Godhead, but scripture specified how we are to come to God the Father by to honor Him by and it is not the Holy Spirit when by the Holy Spirit in us we are to honor the Son by testifying of the Son in seeking the glory of the Son and that has to include worship.

It seems to me that this errant practice initiated by that creed is how, everywhere, many "houses" fall during these phenomenal visits

Seems to me you might have a solution that is in search of a problem.

So you do not want to talk about how holy laughter movement & other "visiting" phenomenon can even occur in other denominations ( not just Pentecostal/Charismatic Churches but Catholic and Protestant Churches back in the 1990's & still today ) that causes believers to lose self control & fall?

Seems to me the problem is in the churches and initiated by that creed too.  It doesn't matter if they recite it or not if they practice worshiping the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son.  Even the hymnals can steer from addressing the blessed Trinity to just addressing the Holy Spirit alone in worship.  They even have one hymnal that calls on the Holy Spirit to fall on them "again" and these are already saved believers that are singing this with the Holy Spirit already in them.

If you still do not see the problem, since we are in the latter days, and Jesus did warn us about false prophets coming into the churches, how would you discern & apply Matthew 7:13-27 & Luke 13:24-30 as exposing what apostasy and reproving what iniquity then for saved believers to avoid it in keeping the faith?

If you have thread on it or for each one, and do not wish to go over it again, feel free to leave a link.  Thanks in advance.

[Athanasius]

Can someone tell me why we're supposed to care about how a totally different forum supports its use of the Nicene creed? If the OP wants to object to the Nicene creed itself and provide Scriptural references for that objection, then that's one thing.

As it is, I see no reason at present why this discussion needs to be entertained. If the Nicene creed itself is being objected to, then let's have another post summarising the complaint, without reference to whatever another forum posits. And then, let's keep it related to the Nicene creed and not whatever other phenomena you currently have in your target, e.g., 'holy laughter'.

We don't need multiple threads, since you're probably going to get banned. Let's start here, and if this thread goes well we can discuss other subjects in their turn.

[Pilgrim]

Theology forum is about proving or reproving theology is why I had placed it here.

Does any one wish to prove the "practice of worshiping the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son" by the scripture because I see none.

I know the Holy Spirit is God and One of the 3 Witnesses within the Godhead, but where is it taught to worship the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son?

I see Jesus specifying only Himself in how we can come to God the Father by.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

That leaves the Holy Spirit out as "Another Go To God" in coming to the Father by, even though the Holy Spirit is God but not Another way to the Father.

I see Jesus specifying how we will be judged in how we honor the Father by which is by only honoring the Son.

John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

That latter part of verse 23 leaves no wiggle room for worshiping the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son even though the Holy Spirit is God, but not Another way to honor the Father by.

Why?

All I can discern with Him is what I see in the world in how sinners worship spirits and the spirits behind idols that the only way God can call them away from those spirits is to be reconciled to the Father by His Son.

The spirits of the antichrist, with antichrist meaning "instead of Christ" or to be more precise "instead of the Son", would take saved believers' eyes off of the Son in worship with their visitations of signs and lying wonders whereas the real indwelling Holy Ghost would never do that.  And so it is in practice in worship.

That is why even after salvation, all invitations is still pointing to the Son, the Bridegroom, in living this reconciled relationship with God the Father thru Jesus Christ.

I blame the creed for bringing that errant practice into the churches, but it is that errant practice that I see as not supported nor taught by scripture but reproved.

Thank you all for your patience & tolerance.  I understand that this is a hard topic & a lot of believers are uncomfortable with it, but my concerns are just & Biblical.

1 Peter 3:14 But and if ye suffer for righteousness' sake, happy are ye: and be not afraid of their terror, neither be troubled;
15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
16 Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ.

Most forums would just ban me rather than answer the question, but I understand why they do it because there are no scripture teaching that practice, but there are scriptures for which I have shared for why there are no scripture for that practice.

I had hoped the Lord would use this forum for my edification & correction, or even confirmation of the truth I see in His words.

I am willing to wait, praying for the Lord to minister to me or for Him to cause the increase in what He has led me to share in these latter days where faith is hard to find.... and He seemed to paint a bleak picture of how bad it will be and seemingly is now in these latter days.

Luke 18:7 And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them?
8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

[RabbiKnife]

The Creed, as written, again, is not Scripture.  It doesn't teach anything.  It is merely a shorthand synopsis of what the church in 381 or so deemed to be essential, differentiating it from the various heretical teaching that had developed.

Keeping the faith is not attacking or defending non-Scriptural statements.  The Word is more than capable of defending itself.  It appears that your real bone of contention is what you deem to be "non-biblical" aka demonic or fleshly  manifestations of something during corporate worship. It you want to talk about those things, then please do so.

And for the record, barking, rolling on the floor laughing, etc... are non-biblical psychological and emotional responses to peer pressure and bad teaching that have nothing to do with Jesus.  But I don't ascribe that to the Creed; I ascribe that to idiotic,  immature nominal Christians that are like the Jews demanding signs and Greeks seeking wisdom... nothing new under the sun, silly women and silly men seeking teachers to say what they want to hear.  Been going on since Paul's day, so nothing new under the sun.

I don't have to attack those practices or condemn them, as they condemn themselves.  My job is to teach truth, and to always be ready to give an answer for the hope that is within me with gentleness and meekness.   Most pentecostal/charismatic churches that all such practices are generally way outside the realm of orthodoxy from the get go and have much deeper problems than a little carpet cleaning or planking.  I doubt that 1 in 1000 of folks that engage in this behavior have ever even heard of the Nicene Creed, and 0 in a million would attribute their behavior to the reference you cite in the Creed.

As to worshipping the Holy Spirit, we worship God, a triune being far beyond our comprehension.  The Holy Spirit is not an it, He is a person, co-equal with God the Father and God the Son.  He is neither secondary nor tertiary and is worthy of praise and worship just as much as we worship the Father and the Son.

I do not need a "scripture verse" to prooftext the validity of worship directed toward the Holy Spirit.  For that matter, there is no scripture verse that says "The Holy Spirit is God, a part of the Trinity."  I infer that truth by comparing Scripture with Scripture.  Everything that one does does not require a direct scriptural reference. 

The Godhead (oops, another non-direct reference based on an old English translation of a word not found in the Greek text) is not jealous; the Father, Son, and Spirit are not rivals, or carving up realms separate and apart from one another.  In an actual and real sense, you can't talk to one without talking to another.

And no, there are not three witnesses... that's a Mormon doctrine based on a greek text that is not found in the more accepted greek texts of 1 John

And now that I think about it, we need to excise Psalm 51 from our Bibles, because clearly the Psalmist is addressing God the Father without doing so in the name of Jesus.

Again, I think hyper-literalization leads to many errors.

Heresy hunters historically do not achieve a great deal, while faithful followers of Jesus teach the truth, which of its own accord roots out and destroys false teaching.

[RabbiKnife]

Theology forum is about proving or reproving theology is why I had placed it here.

Does any one wish to prove the "practice of worshiping the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son" by the scripture because I see none.

I know the Holy Spirit is God and One of the 3 Witnesses within the Godhead, but where is it taught to worship the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son?

I see Jesus specifying only Himself in how we can come to God the Father by.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

That leaves the Holy Spirit out as "Another Go To God" in coming to the Father by, even though the Holy Spirit is God but not Another way to the Father.

I see Jesus specifying how we will be judged in how we honor the Father by which is by only honoring the Son.

John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

That latter part of verse 23 leaves no wiggle room for worshiping the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son even though the Holy Spirit is God, but not Another way to honor the Father by.

Why?

All I can discern with Him is what I see in the world in how sinners worship spirits and the spirits behind idols that the only way God can call them away from those spirits is to be reconciled to the Father by His Son.

The spirits of the antichrist, with antichrist meaning "instead of Christ" or to be more precise "instead of the Son", would take saved believers' eyes off of the Son in worship with their visitations of signs and lying wonders whereas the real indwelling Holy Ghost would never do that.  And so it is in practice in worship.

That is why even after salvation, all invitations is still pointing to the Son, the Bridegroom, in living this reconciled relationship with God the Father thru Jesus Christ.

I blame the creed for bringing that errant practice into the churches, but it is that errant practice that I see as not supported nor taught by scripture but reproved.

Thank you all for your patience & tolerance.  I understand that this is a hard topic & a lot of believers are uncomfortable with it, but my concerns are just & Biblical.

1 Peter 3:14 But and if ye suffer for righteousness' sake, happy are ye: and be not afraid of their terror, neither be troubled;
15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
16 Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ.

Most forums would just ban me rather than answer the question, but I understand why they do it because there are no scripture teaching that practice, but there are scriptures for which I have shared for why there are no scripture for that practice.

I had hoped the Lord would use this forum for my edification & correction, or even confirmation of the truth I see in His words.

I am willing to wait, praying for the Lord to minister to me or for Him to cause the increase in what He has led me to share in these latter days where faith is hard to find.... and He seemed to paint a bleak picture of how bad it will be and seemingly is now in these latter days.

Luke 18:7 And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them?
8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

I fear that you feel somewhat of a martyr complex, feeling that you, like Elijah, are the sole and remaining DefenderOfGodTM.  Rest assured that there are 7000 more here in Israel that have not bowed the knee to Baal.

I can't prove that Jesus is God by use of a single Bible verse wherein God says "Jesus is God", because no verse says "Jesus is God" and attributes that phrase to God the Father as the speaker or author.  We learn the truth of Jesus' deity from the witness of others by more importantly by inference and by comparing Scripture with Scripture.

As to worship?  Worship is not magic.  There is no formula or set of magic words that validate or invalidate worship.  Worship must be in spirit and in truth, not in formulae and form.  Worship is nothing more that recognizing value and worth in another.  In "worth scipe" we simply announce to all around the value that we place on the person being worshipped. 

For example.

a.  God the Father is God.
b.  God the Father is, therefore, Deity.
c.  Deity alone can be and must be worshipped.
d.  Therefore, it is proper to worship God the Father.

A.  The Holy Spirit is God.
B.  The Holy SPirit, therefore, is Deity.
c.  Deity alone can be and must be worshipped.
d.  Therefore, it is proper to worship God the Holy Spirit.

A.  Jesus Christ is God.
B.  Jesus Christ is, therefore, Deity.
c.  Deity alone can be and must be worshipped.
d.  Therefore, it is proper to worship God the Son.

Exact same logic, exact same result.

[Pilgrim]

The Creed, as written, again, is not Scripture.  It doesn't teach anything.  It is merely a shorthand synopsis of what the church in 381 or so deemed to be essential, differentiating it from the various heretical teaching that had developed.

To reprove heresy is to teach against it, and by that very means, introduce heresy as well.

Keeping the faith is not attacking or defending non-Scriptural statements.  The Word is more than capable of defending itself.  It appears that your real bone of contention is what you deem to be "non-biblical" aka demonic or fleshly  manifestations of something during corporate worship. It you want to talk about those things, then please do so.

Then let us talk about how these phenomenon is done by focusing on the Holy Spirit in worship.  Why would God allow the demonic to respond when the focus is on the Holy Spirit?

Case reference, a brother in India did not believe the Holy Spirit did those dramatic manifestations any more like He did in the early church in Acts.  One calendar day of Pentecost, his church honored the Holy Spirit that day.  While this brother was praying, he felt something like liquid nitrogen seeping through his skull.  The next thing he knew, or so he claimed, is that he was confessing an apology to the Holy Spirit but against his will.

Unless he was lying, that was not the Holy Spirit because God would prefer a willing apology and the Holy Spirit being the Spirit of Christ, meek and lowly in heart, would not represent Christ in that fashion no draw attention to Himself in that way to solicit worship, but the spirit of the antichrist would.

Which is why I believe you will not find any scripture teaching that practice when our eyes are to be on the Son in worship which is what the Holy Spirit in us is leading us to do in testifying of in glorifying in worship.

And for the record, barking, rolling on the floor laughing, etc... are non-biblical psychological and emotional responses to peer pressure and bad teaching that have nothing to do with Jesus.  But I don't ascribe that to the Creed; I ascribe that to idiotic,  immature nominal Christians that are like the Jews demanding signs and Greeks seeking wisdom... nothing new under the sun, silly women and silly men seeking teachers to say what they want to hear.  Been going on since Paul's day, so nothing new under the sun.

These supernatural phenomenon can be real when excluding those that just want to fit in and belong.

To see the similarity between kundalini, an eastern mysticism, and what is happening in Christian circles can be seen in the video below.

I don't have to attack those practices or condemn them, as they condemn themselves.  My job is to teach truth, and to always be ready to give an answer for the hope that is within me with gentleness and meekness.   Most pentecostal/charismatic churches that all such practices are generally way outside the realm of orthodoxy from the get go and have much deeper problems than a little carpet cleaning or planking.  I doubt that 1 in 1000 of folks that engage in this behavior have ever even heard of the Nicene Creed, and 0 in a million would attribute their behavior to the reference you cite in the Creed.

When the way has been broadened in the worship place to include the worship of the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son by that creed, and that practice has creeped into every day church life down through the ages, where now, the apostasy happens more often where saved believers actually believe they can receive the Holy Ghost again apart from salvation after signs, I understand your point that nobody is going to attribute that present day apostasy to that creed.

But I would say Jesus did in Matthew 7:13-27.  This iniquity ( supernatural phenomenon ) will cause many believers to fall in Matthew 7:24-27, and from that iniquity will come claims of healings and casting out of devils in Matthew 7:21-23.  That iniquity will be an evil tree that produce evil fruits in Matthew 7:17-20 where some of those in Pentecostalism & Charismatics who condemn slain in the spirit and holy laughter as not of God, but ignore how the same route/rudiment when people seek another baptism with the Holy Ghost by that sign of tongues and that is that tree of focusing on the Holy Spirit when the real indwelling Holy Spirit would lead us to focus on the Son. This iniquity will be ecumenical in nature as gathering grapes of thorns and figs of thistles in Matthew 7:15-16 which is what that Nicene creed of 381 A.D. is and the very iniquity causing all of this is the broadening of the way in the worship place which is by including the worship of the holy Spirit withy the Father & the Son Matthew 7:13-14   

As to worshipping the Holy Spirit, we worship God, a triune being far beyond our comprehension.  The Holy Spirit is not an it, He is a person, co-equal with God the Father and God the Son.  He is neither secondary nor tertiary and is worthy of praise and worship just as much as we worship the Father and the Son.

I agree that the Holy Spirit is not an 'it" but One of the 3 Witnesses within the Godhead, but I do not agree that we would be led by the Holy Spirit, to worship the Holy Spirit Himself.

I do not need a "scripture verse" to prooftext the validity of worship directed toward the Holy Spirit.  For that matter, there is no scripture verse that says "The Holy Spirit is God, a part of the Trinity."  I infer that truth by comparing Scripture with Scripture.  Everything that one does does not require a direct scriptural reference.

What about the scripture that did specified how we are to come to God the Father by and how the Father is to be only honored by Whom is the Son?

The Godhead (oops, another non-direct reference based on an old English translation of a word not found in the Greek text) is not jealous; the Father, Son, and Spirit are not rivals, or carving up realms separate and apart from one another.  In an actual and real sense, you can't talk to one without talking to another.

Only Jesus as the Son of Man/ Son of God had died on the cross, brother.  Neither the Holy Spirit & the Father had died on that cross.  Jesus even experienced the separation from the Father when He took all our sins upon Himself, Our Creator, and that was seen in nature when the light of the sun & the full moon went out for that 3 hours of unexplained darkness at His crucifixion.

So your statement is not so cut & dry that we should pay attention to what Jesus actually said that He is the only way to come to God the Father by and that only by honoring the Son are you able to honor the Father by which is what the Holy Spirit in us & scripture is leading us to do as there is a judgment on every believer also.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him. KJV

And no, there are not three witnesses... that's a Mormon doctrine based on a greek text that is not found in the more accepted greek texts of 1 John

That is not a Mormon doctrine when there are extrabiblical evidence of debating the doctrine of the Trinity way back to 200 A.D.

https://www.chick.com/information/article?id=is-i-john-5:7-missing-from-older-manuscripts

200 AD   Tertullian wrote "which three are one" based on the verse in his Against Praxeas, chapter 25.
250 AD   Cyprian of Carthage, wrote, "And again, of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost it is written: "And the three are One" in his On The Lapsed, On the Novatians, (see note for Old Latin)
350 AD   Priscillian referred to it [Corpus Scriptorum Ecclesiasticorum Latinorum, Academia Litterarum Vindobonensis, vol. xviii, p. 6.]
350 AD   Idacius Clarus referred to it [Patrilogiae Cursus Completus, Series Latina by Migne, vol. 62, col. 359.]
350 AD   Athanasius referred to it in his De Incarnatione
398 AD   Aurelius Augustine used it to defend Trinitarianism in De Trinitate against the heresy of Sabellianism
415 AD   Council of Carthage appealed to 1 John 5:7 when debating the Arian belief (Arians didn't believe in the deity of Jesus Christ)
450-530 AD   Several orthodox African writers quoted the verse when defending the doctrine of the Trinity against the gainsaying of the Vandals. These writers are:
     A) Vigilius Tapensis in "Three Witnesses in Heaven"
     B) Victor Vitensis in his Historia persecutionis [Corpus Scriptorum Ecclesiasticorum Latinorum, Academia Litterarum Vindobonensis, vol. vii, p. 60.]
     C) Fulgentius in "The Three Heavenly Witnesses" [Patrilogiae Cursus Completus, Series Latina by Migne, vol. 65, col. 500.]

There is more, but that should prove it is not a Mormon doctrine.  BYW  I do not endorse Jack Chick & his site but that author David W. Daniels seems to be spot on in regards to the issue about 1 John 5:7 as proving it was originally scripture.

And now that I think about it, we need to excise Psalm 51 from our Bibles, because clearly the Psalmist is addressing God the Father without doing so in the name of Jesus.

The God that men had heard and seen in the O.T. was the Son of God before His incarnation and not the Father.

John 5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape....
39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me.
47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

Jesus testified that Abraham had seen Him.

John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

Again, I think hyper-literalization leads to many errors.

Heresy hunters historically do not achieve a great deal, while faithful followers of Jesus teach the truth, which of its own accord roots out and destroys false teaching.

ehh..  we are dealing with scriptures though.  I am not convinced yet that I am engaging in hyper-literalization especially when you guys do so well by reproving false teachings by what the actual scripture says and frown upon adding anything to His words.

Like how Athanasius left no room for doubt that the sons of God were not angels nor fallen angels in that one thread.  That is why I had hopped on in here.

This is why I would have believed the Lord would have you guys alerted to this sleeping but heretical oversight in Christianity that most Christian forums would not nor dare not address.  And if study or more research is needed to show my oversight, but by the actual scripture, I am open to correction for how you guys go at it.

As of now, I believe I am led by the indwelling Holy Spirit & scripture to keep my eyes on the Son because the Bridegroom will be coming soon.

Thank you for your participation.  I see another post of your that God be willing, I shall respond to for this iron sharpen iron ministry of His.

[RabbiKnife]

Don't be surprised if no one agrees with you.
Your assumption is that silence = prohibition.

Nothing in Scripture, or in any consistent hermeneutic, supports such a position.

Much of your argument seems to be "If A = B", and if "C" is a letter of the alphabet, then "A=C"

Just haven't seen anything convincing me that (A) the creed has anything to do with "expanding worship to the Holy SPirit."  For pity sake, numerous Christian hymns addressing worship to the Father Son and Holy Spirit are extant in writing, as memorialization of earlier oral tradition, from the early 300s.

It was a common early church practice.  Tertullian, Origen, and others reference direct prayers to the Holy SPirit.  This was not something made out of whole cloth at Nicea. 

The passage in Matthew 7 is not a condemnation of supernatural phenomena like miracle and casting out demons.  These were common experiences that both the 12 and the 70 experienced while sent out on mission by Jesus.

The  point of Matthew 7 is not to either support as normative or to deny as error healing and casting out demons, but instead, to demonstrate that faith is never a matter of actions or outcomes, but is always a matter of the heart and of faith.

And no, the evidence against the comma Johannum is extensive, and the fact that Jack Chick cites a source is enough for me to ignore that source completely.

[Pilgrim]

I fear that you feel somewhat of a martyr complex, feeling that you, like Elijah, are the sole and remaining DefenderOfGodTM.  Rest assured that there are 7000 more here in Israel that have not bowed the knee to Baal.

I can't prove that Jesus is God by use of a single Bible verse wherein God says "Jesus is God", because no verse says "Jesus is God" and attributes that phrase to God the Father as the speaker or author.  We learn the truth of Jesus' deity from the witness of others by more importantly by inference and by comparing Scripture with Scripture.

The actual words, no, but Jesus did testified that He is God.  That is why He was crucified for;

John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
30 I and my Father are one.
31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.
39 Therefore they sought again to take him: but he escaped out of their hand,

Matthew 26:63 But Jesus held his peace, And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.
64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
65 Then the high priest rent his clothes, saying, He hath spoken blasphemy; what further need have we of witnesses? behold, now ye have heard his blasphemy.
66 What think ye? They answered and said, He is guilty of death.

As to worship?  Worship is not magic.  There is no formula or set of magic words that validate or invalidate worship.  Worship must be in spirit and in truth, not in formulae and form.  Worship is nothing more that recognizing value and worth in another.  In "worth scipe" we simply announce to all around the value that we place on the person being worshipped. 

For example.

a.  God the Father is God.
b.  God the Father is, therefore, Deity.
c.  Deity alone can be and must be worshipped.
d.  Therefore, it is proper to worship God the Father.

A.  The Holy Spirit is God.
B.  The Holy SPirit, therefore, is Deity.
c.  Deity alone can be and must be worshipped.
d.  Therefore, it is proper to worship God the Holy Spirit.

A.  Jesus Christ is God.
B.  Jesus Christ is, therefore, Deity.
c.  Deity alone can be and must be worshipped.
d.  Therefore, it is proper to worship God the Son.

Exact same logic, exact same result.

Paul stressed this as the mind of Christ we are to have in worship because this is the only way God the Father is glorified by.

Philippians 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Jesus declared this truth as well.

John 13:31 Therefore, when he was gone out, Jesus said, Now is the Son of man glorified, and God is glorified in him.
32 If God be glorified in him, God shall also glorify him in himself, and shall straightway glorify him.

If someone came up to you and had asked, "Where is the glory of the Father?"  What would you say?  I would say the glory of the Father is in His Son.

If someone came up to you and had asked, "Where is the glory of the Holy Spirit?"  What would you say then?  I would say the Holy Spirit seeks no glory for Himself but for the Son and thereby glorifying God the Father.

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

How does the Holy Spirit fulfill His role to glorify the Son?  By testifying of Him thru us.

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
27 And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.

Remember what Jesus said about false witnessing?

John 5:31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.

How can the Holy Spirit lead saved believers to testify of Himself?  He cannot.  See why below.

John 7:18 He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.

If the Holy Spirit leads believers to testify of Himself in seeking His own glory, that would make unrighteousness in God, and so He would not lead believers to testify of Himself, the Holy Spirit in seeking His own glory when His job is to testify of the Son thru us in seeking the glory of the Son and by Him, the glory of God the Father.

If we were to be individual witness of the Son like Philip was to that Ethiopian eunuch at the end of Acts 8, the added witness of the Holy Spirit in Philip & in us would make our testimony of the Son true.

John 8:17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.

Now imagine Philip talking about the Holy Spirit in seeking the glory of the Holy Spirit.  Philip would not be led by the Spirit of Christ to do that.  Not happening.

But in these latter days, it seems believers have forgotten where the focus is in worship, fellowship, and prayer.

1 Corinthians 2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

Did Paul talked about other issues?  Sure, but can it be said he sought the glory of something else in His name when addressing other issues?  No, Paul did not.

Neither will the indwelling Holy Spirit.

So what we are left with is addressing church's doctrine and practice for which scripture does not support but actually reproves because there is no other way to come to God the Father by except by the only way provided, the Son, and there is no other way to honor the Father except by only honoring the Son.

And scripture & the Holy Spirit in us is leading us to do that when we take heed to His words and narrow the way back to the straight gate to avoid being left behind.

Luke 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.
25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:
26 Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.
27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.
28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.
29 And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God.
30 And, behold, there are last which shall be first, and there are first which shall be last.

Anyway, here is hoping that the Lord will enable us all to be patient and in meekness while addressing this issue as I know that the Lord will prune even the fruitful disciples so they can bear more fruit as we all are moving on to perfection by His grace & by His help.

John 15:1I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

Thank you for your participation.

May God bless you & keep you.  May He shine His face upon you & give you His peace.

[Pilgrim]

Don't be surprised if no one agrees with you.
Your assumption is that silence = prohibition.

Nothing in Scripture, or in any consistent hermeneutic, supports such a position.

Much of your argument seems to be "If A = B", and if "C" is a letter of the alphabet, then "A=C"

Just haven't seen anything convincing me that (A) the creed has anything to do with "expanding worship to the Holy SPirit."  For pity sake, numerous Christian hymns addressing worship to the Father Son and Holy Spirit are extant in writing, as memorialization of earlier oral tradition, from the early 300s.

It was a common early church practice.  Tertullian, Origen, and others reference direct prayers to the Holy SPirit.  This was not something made out of whole cloth at Nicea.

They would be wrong.  And at the very least, explain how the error can come about.  Thanks for the info.

I would believe that you guys would take them to the task by referring to the scripture in the N.T.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me...
13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it. 

1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

That means the Holy Spirit cannot be Another Mediator.  The Holy Spirit fulfills His role quite well as the Comforter.

The passage in Matthew 7 is not a condemnation of supernatural phenomena like miracle and casting out demons.  These were common experiences that both the 12 and the 70 experienced while sent out on mission by Jesus.

The  point of Matthew 7 is not to either support as normative or to deny as error healing and casting out demons, but instead, to demonstrate that faith is never a matter of actions or outcomes, but is always a matter of the heart and of faith.

When comparing Matthew 7:13-27 with Luke 13:24-30 I see Jesus prophesying for the latter days before He comes for why many saved believers will be left behind from the Marriage Supper in Heaven.

And no, the evidence against the comma Johannum is extensive, and the fact that Jack Chick cites a source is enough for me to ignore that source completely.

There is a plurality within the One God.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and [b]we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.[/b]...
26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

And there has to be 3 Witnesses for God to establish a word in creation, to judge the people at the Tower of Babel, and to testify of His Son as God from Heaven.

Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Genesis 11:5 And the Lord came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded.
6 And the Lord said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.
7 Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.
8 So the Lord scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city.

The Hebrew word for God is Elohim which is plural form of God.  So for God to make a request and yet only God performed it, proves the plurality within the One God.

Notice how the Father's witness from Heaven is true by His own words when the Holy Spirit had alighted on the Son.

John 8:17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.

Matthew 3:15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.
16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

As the Lord commands men in bearing true witness, so does He do as the Triune God.

And what righteousness was fulfilled that Jesus was talking about to John the Baptist?  The fulfillment of this prophesy below.

Isaiah 48:16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord God, and his Spirit, hath sent me.
17 Thus saith the Lord, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the Lord thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.

The Lord our God, the Redeemer is speaking in that prophesy and yet the Lord God & His Spirit sent Him.  That prophesy was fulfilled at His water baptism.

[RabbiKnife]

But what about Roman 8 where the spirit prays for us and intercedes for us?  Your hyper liberalization is leading you into denigrating the spirit

This three witness stuff is pure poppycock

There don’t have to be three witnesses for God to prove anything

[Pilgrim]

But what about Roman 8 where the spirit prays for us and intercedes for us?  Your hyper liberalization is leading you into denigrating the spirit

But how does the Spirit make intercessions for us when He cannot utter His own prayers but speak what He hears?

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.  KJV

All Bible versions testifies to this truth but not every Bible version aligns Romans 8:26-27 to that truth, but I will refer to the KJV out of those few Bibles that do.

Romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. KJV

Verse 26 use the term "itself" to infer that the mind of the Holy Spirit will be serving as a means to how His intercessions are known to God the Father since the Holy Spirit cannot even utter His groanings. In verse 27, this "he" is separate from us in searching our hearts and therefore separate from the Spirit to know the mind of is how the intercessions of the Spirit's are known to the Father because the Son knows the mind of the Spirit to give the Spirit's unspoken intercessions to the Father which is in according to the will of God because of there being only one Mediator between God and men,  so when the Father agrees with any intercession, be it ours, the Spirit's. or the Son's, the Son answers the prayers so the Father may be glorified in the Son for answers to prayers.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me......
13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

Matthew 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
8 Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.
 
Modern day tongue speakers that uses Romans 8:26-27 as if supporting praying in tongues are not realizing from John 16:13 in their Bible version that the Holy Spirit cannot turn God's gift of tongues around for His own use in uttering His prayers back to God.  Indeed, Matthew 6:7-8 proves there is no necessity for that kind of prayer and indeed cannot be of Him at all when the Father knows before we even ask Him.

Romans 8:26-27 is for every believer to know how the Father knows everything before we ask Him as Jesus searches our hearts & knows the mind of the Spirit.

This three witness stuff is pure poppycock

There don’t have to be three witnesses for God to prove anything

Note the emphasis for establishing or confirming a testimony or for rebuking anyone.

Matthew 18:15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

2 Corinthians 13:1This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.

1 Timothy 5:19 Against an elder receive not an accusation, but before two or three witnesses.
20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.

That is how it is in the O.T.  His word has not changed.

Deuteronomy 17:6 At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall he that is worthy of death be put to death; but at the mouth of one witness he shall not be put to death.

Deuteronomy 19:15 One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established.

Anyway, as God commands of men, will He be found a hypocrite?  No!  As God commands of men, so does He do as the Triune God.

I know it is on God to cause the increase since it is not in my power nor ability to convince any one of the truth in His words.

1 Corinthians 3:5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?
6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

2 Corinthians 3:4 And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:
5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

2 Corinthians 4:5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.
6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

May God bless you & keep you.  May He shine His face upon you and give you His peace.

[Athanasius]

Theology forum is about proving or reproving theology is why I had placed it here.

The question was why should we care about a theological statement on an entirely different forum, not, why did you post theology in the theology subform? Are you the poster at the other forum that posted this topic in 2016 to utterly no one's interest? If it is, then I beg to differ: females can use urinals, it's just, would they want to? Lots of [Staff Edit] tags.

If that wasn't you then wow, such similarity. Is there like, a secret group of people who go around contesting the Nicaean creed of 381?

Does any one wish to prove the "practice of worshiping the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son" by the scripture because I see none.

So, you've come here asking us to prove an assertion about support for the Nicaean creed of 381 made by a different forum, and for whatever reason you're holding us to task for defending the practice?

Sigh.

I know the Holy Spirit is God and One of the 3 Witnesses within the Godhead, but where is it taught to worship the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son?

Witnesses, huh. Are you arguing that the Holy Spirit is God but as God isn't worthy of praise in the way that the Son and the Father are worthy of praise?

I see Jesus specifying only Himself in how we can come to God the Father by.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Are you arguing that praise is only rightly directed specifically towards Jesus because... something something God the Father soteriology something redemptive work something something? Is that too leading?

That leaves the Holy Spirit out as "Another Go To God" in coming to the Father by, even though the Holy Spirit is God but not Another way to the Father.

Why Are We Capitalising Random Words?

You haven't argued anything. You've asserted that only Jesus is worthy of praise because Jesus is the redeemer, and the Holy Spirit isn't worthy of praise because the Holy Spirt is God but differently. There's nothing connecting these two propositions, and nothing expounding on the significance of the Holy SPirit as God but 'Another way to the Father'<sic>.

I see Jesus specifying how we will be judged in how we honor the Father by which is by only honoring the Son.

But can you see how it's not dishonoring to the Son to worship God? The Son, the Father, or the Holy Spirit?

John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

Irrelevant to the claim you're making.

That latter part of verse 23 leaves no wiggle room for worshiping the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son even though the Holy Spirit is God, but not Another way to honor the Father by.

Why?

Why? You won't tell us. I'll tell you: it doesn't.

All I can discern with Him is what I see in the world in how sinners worship spirits and the spirits behind idols that the only way God can call them away from those spirits is to be reconciled to the Father by His Son.

Irrelevant.

The spirits of the antichrist, with antichrist meaning "instead of Christ" or to be more precise "instead of the Son", would take saved believers' eyes off of the Son in worship with their visitations of signs and lying wonders whereas the real indwelling Holy Ghost would never do that.  And so it is in practice in worship.

Ah, the classic "if you're told to worship the Holy Spirit it's the work of anti-Christ". This is outlandish on its own, but you've failed to provide foundation for the claim so it's highly unconvincing.

That is why even after salvation, all invitations is still pointing to the Son, the Bridegroom, in living this reconciled relationship with God the Father thru Jesus Christ.

Irrelevant.

I blame the creed for bringing that errant practice into the churches, but it is that errant practice that I see as not supported nor taught by scripture but reproved.

Assertion, lack of foundation, unintelligible -- your honor.

Thank you all for your patience & tolerance.  I understand that this is a hard topic & a lot of believers are uncomfortable with it, but my concerns are just & Biblical.

Doubt.

Most forums would just ban me rather than answer the question, but I understand why they do it because there are no scripture teaching that practice, but there are scriptures for which I have shared for why there are no scripture for that practice.

They aren't banning you for asking the question. You're going to have to do far better.

I had hoped the Lord would use this forum for my edification & correction, or even confirmation of the truth I see in His words.

Oh, we'll edify you alright.