Be sure that sin will find you out

[Sojourner]

quick question, i keep seeing people talking about moral decay, do you folks think child sex abuse and such is new at this scale? Additionally, if not what is new, i mean corrected for like population/oppoutunity?

Immorality and crime have been around as long as mankind, and moral decay in and of itself is not new. The internet however is a game changer that has only been in widespread usage for around 40 years. In that time, bad actors have used the internet to create the online porn industry, facilitating global porn addiction (including child porn), online sex trafficking industry, targeted cyber crime, including industrial hacking, RAT's, ransomware, spoofing and phishing, the feeding of gambling addiction with online gambling websites, banking fraud, and for the communication and coordination of nefarious groups and organizations. (These are only the ones that come to mind at the moment). These industries generally pander to and exploit prurient interests and addictions to the detriment of society, and did not exist 50 years ago. So, I think it's safe to say there has been an uptick in moral decay in recent times.

Interesting, Do you believe that opportunity to engage in immoral activity with  diminished risk of social stigmatization or legal punishment corrupts people? For example perhaps 50 years ago if one wanted to view pornographic films they would have had to go to a public theater and risk being seen by other members of the public. Does it matter if one behaves in a moral way due to fear legal and social repercussions as opposed to behaving morally because they wish to live and behave morally for its own sake?

Well, it's logical to think the anonymity of the internet facilitates activities that people don't want others to know about. I think however, the issue is more about the detrimental effect of increased activity due to increased availability and access. Gone are the days when one had to surreptitiously visit an adult video or book store to access porn. British authorities involved in implementing the new age verification laws found there are about 4.5 million porn websites on the internet, more than half being in the US.

Just one of them, Pornhub, reports over 100 million visits daily--33 billion over the course of 2018. That's just one of several million sites. Societal norms regarding porn are also changing. According to a 2018 Gallup poll, more than four out of ten Americans (43%) currently think pornography is morally acceptable, representing a seven percent increase from the previous year, and a vast increase from 20 years ago. Research also shows an increasing number of children accessing pornography, though that's mostly the fault of their parents. The internet, despite its many positive benefits, has a dark side that can have a detrimental effect on society.

 Look at it this way: over the last 30 years or so, millions of people became addicted to pain killers--many dying from an overdose--because so many doctors were over-prescribing them. If they had been harder to get, the number of those becoming addicted would have been a fraction of what it is now, and the opioid epidemic never would have happened. In a similar manner, easy access to millions of porn sites has greatly increased the problem of porn addiction. But it's not just about porn. It's also about the vast increase in all types of cyber crime and nefarious activity made possible by technology. While a fallen human nature is the root cause of moral decay, internet porn and cyber crime are both major contributing factors.

[Sojourner]

So. I have for a long time worried more about wolves in church than I have about a transgendered sexual deviate out there in the world, which is cause for concern, but, I already know the world is evil.

Yep. "But now I am writing you not to associate with anyone who claims to be a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a verbal abuser, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat. What business of mine is it to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked man from among you.” (1 Co 5:11-13)

[Oscar_Kipling]

quick question, i keep seeing people talking about moral decay, do you folks think child sex abuse and such is new at this scale? Additionally, if not what is new, i mean corrected for like population/oppoutunity?

Immorality and crime have been around as long as mankind, and moral decay in and of itself is not new. The internet however is a game changer that has only been in widespread usage for around 40 years. In that time, bad actors have used the internet to create the online porn industry, facilitating global porn addiction (including child porn), online sex trafficking industry, targeted cyber crime, including industrial hacking, RAT's, ransomware, spoofing and phishing, the feeding of gambling addiction with online gambling websites, banking fraud, and for the communication and coordination of nefarious groups and organizations. (These are only the ones that come to mind at the moment). These industries generally pander to and exploit prurient interests and addictions to the detriment of society, and did not exist 50 years ago. So, I think it's safe to say there has been an uptick in moral decay in recent times.

Interesting, Do you believe that opportunity to engage in immoral activity with  diminished risk of social stigmatization or legal punishment corrupts people? For example perhaps 50 years ago if one wanted to view pornographic films they would have had to go to a public theater and risk being seen by other members of the public. Does it matter if one behaves in a moral way due to fear legal and social repercussions as opposed to behaving morally because they wish to live and behave morally for its own sake?

Well, it's logical to think the anonymity of the internet facilitates activities that people don't want others to know about. I think however, the issue is more about the detrimental effect of increased activity due to increased availability and access. Gone are the days when one had to surreptitiously visit an adult video or book store to access porn. British authorities involved in implementing the new age verification laws found there are about 4.5 million porn websites on the internet, more than half being in the US.

Just one of them, Pornhub, reports over 100 million visits daily--33 billion over the course of 2018. That's just one of several million sites. Societal norms regarding porn are also changing. According to a 2018 Gallup poll, more than four out of ten Americans (43%) currently think pornography is morally acceptable, representing a seven percent increase from the previous year, and a vast increase from 20 years ago. Research also shows an increasing number of children accessing pornography, though that's mostly the fault of their parents. The internet, despite its many positive benefits, has a dark side that can have a detrimental effect on society.

 Look at it this way: over the last 30 years or so, millions of people became addicted to pain killers--many dying from an overdose--because so many doctors were over-prescribing them. If they had been harder to get, the number of those becoming addicted would have been a fraction of what it is now, and the opioid epidemic never would have happened. In a similar manner, easy access to millions of porn sites has greatly increased the problem of porn addiction. But it's not just about porn. It's also about the vast increase in all types of cyber crime and nefarious activity made possible by technology. While a fallen human nature is the root cause of moral decay, internet porn and cyber crime are both major contributing factors.

Is addiction a moral failing? I mean even if it is I have to think that becoming addicted to prescribed medication is different than porn addiction as I have to assume that unless someone forced you to watch porn (which happens of course) then you made a choice to check it out, whereas a trusted medical professional prescribes drugs. These things do not seem the same to me.

[Sojourner]

You're missing my point. I'm comparing porn addiction to opioid addiction only in the sense that an increased availability leads to more opportunity to use and become addicted.

[Oscar_Kipling]

You're missing my point. I'm comparing porn addiction to opioid addiction only in the sense that an increased availability leads to more opportunity to use and become addicted.

Oh okay I see. I guess what I was wondering is, if we were to set up circumstances in a world such that there were no opportunities to sin would that be a moral world or an amoral world? Does it mean anything in a moral context to have never watched porn if you never could have watched porn? I would think there are non trivial distinctions in the moral nature of 2 time periods where in 1 there were very few opportunities to be immoral and in another it took a great deal of effort to avoid immorality ....which I just realized was a major plot point on the show "The Good Place". Anyway If moral decay is really just this exponential explosion of opportunities for sin then it is really important when and where you are born when it comes to how likely it is that you are going to do something immoral, the further along you go in time the more likely you are to do something immoral even if the human predisposition toward sin remains relatively constant...I don't know that decay is what i'd describe that circumstance as people's moral fiber isn't deteriorating (which is what i've always taken it to mean) so much as there are more options....Is that biblical? Does the bible tell us that it will become increasingly more difficult to lead a moral life, like back in Jesus' time we were trying to stuff a camel through the eye of a pin but in 2022 we're trying to stuff blue whale through a transistor junction and in 100 years it will be many orders of magnitude more difficult? Seems like a raw deal for us and an even rawer deal for the daughters of our daughter's daughters.

[Sojourner]

You're missing my point. I'm comparing porn addiction to opioid addiction only in the sense that an increased availability leads to more opportunity to use and become addicted.

Oh okay I see. I guess what I was wondering is, if we were to set up circumstances in a world such that there were no opportunities to sin would that be a moral world or an amoral world? Does it mean anything in a moral context to have never watched porn if you never could have watched porn? I would think there are non trivial distinctions in the moral nature of 2 time periods where in 1 there were very few opportunities to be immoral and in another it took a great deal of effort to avoid immorality ....which I just realized was a major plot point on the show "The Good Place". Anyway If moral decay is really just this exponential explosion of opportunities for sin then it is really important when and where you are born when it comes to how likely it is that you are going to do something immoral, the further along you go in time the more likely you are to do something immoral even if the human predisposition toward sin remains relatively constant...I don't know that decay is what i'd describe that circumstance as people's moral fiber isn't deteriorating (which is what i've always taken it to mean) so much as there are more options....Is that biblical? Does the bible tell us that it will become increasingly more difficult to lead a moral life, like back in Jesus' time we were trying to stuff a camel through the eye of a pin but in 2022 we're trying to stuff blue whale through a transistor junction and in 100 years it will be many orders of magnitude more difficult? Seems like a raw deal for us and an even rawer deal for the daughters of our daughter's daughters.

Finding your post rambling, convoluted, and predicated on philosophical questions and hypothetical situations, let me simply cut to the chase: 1. Sin is essentially opposing one's will against God's will, irregardless of the era in which one lives, or the specific circumstances of a given scenario. Times change, but the propensity of human nature to rebel against God's will and purpose does not. 2. Moral decay occurs when a culture or society abandons previously held societal standards of godliness, morality and decency. 3. The Bible clearly foretells mankind's progressive, downward spiral into political upheaval, lawlessness and moral turpitude as the time of the Lord's return nears. That is where are now. And that's my final reply in this discussion.

[Oscar_Kipling]

You're missing my point. I'm comparing porn addiction to opioid addiction only in the sense that an increased availability leads to more opportunity to use and become addicted.

Oh okay I see. I guess what I was wondering is, if we were to set up circumstances in a world such that there were no opportunities to sin would that be a moral world or an amoral world? Does it mean anything in a moral context to have never watched porn if you never could have watched porn? I would think there are non trivial distinctions in the moral nature of 2 time periods where in 1 there were very few opportunities to be immoral and in another it took a great deal of effort to avoid immorality ....which I just realized was a major plot point on the show "The Good Place". Anyway If moral decay is really just this exponential explosion of opportunities for sin then it is really important when and where you are born when it comes to how likely it is that you are going to do something immoral, the further along you go in time the more likely you are to do something immoral even if the human predisposition toward sin remains relatively constant...I don't know that decay is what i'd describe that circumstance as people's moral fiber isn't deteriorating (which is what i've always taken it to mean) so much as there are more options....Is that biblical? Does the bible tell us that it will become increasingly more difficult to lead a moral life, like back in Jesus' time we were trying to stuff a camel through the eye of a pin but in 2022 we're trying to stuff blue whale through a transistor junction and in 100 years it will be many orders of magnitude more difficult? Seems like a raw deal for us and an even rawer deal for the daughters of our daughter's daughters.

Finding your post rambling, convoluted, and predicated on philosophical questions and hypothetical situations, let me simply cut to the chase: 1. Sin is essentially opposing one's will against God's will, irregardless of the era in which one lives, or the specific circumstances of a given scenario. Times change, but the propensity of human nature to rebel against God's will and purpose does not. 2. Moral decay occurs when a culture or society abandons previously held societal standards of godliness, morality and decency. 3. The Bible clearly foretells mankind's progressive, downward spiral into political upheaval, lawlessness and moral turpitude as the time of the Lord's return nears. That is where are now. And that's my final reply in this discussion.

Well, you're not wrong, my post was definitely both rambling and convoluted, additionally you nailed it when you pointed out that it was based on philosophical questions and hypothetical situations, so thanks for taking the time to answer it in spite of all of that. I'd love to ask you a few more questions but I respect that you have said your piece and thank you for your contribution.