Supreme Court leaked draft opinion

[RabbiKnife]

Just speaking for myself…

 because I don’t really give a rats rear about having conversations critical of huge swaths of  people for generalized beliefs that have absolutely nothing to do with me or my life

Mosy hypotheticals are extraordinarily boring and diatribes about what some other human may or may not do in someone else’s fantasy is frankly as boring as hell

[Fenris]

I see that the left is freaking out over this. I'm a little baffled. Overturning Roe only means that there's no federal right to an abortion. Many (most?) states will permit it anyway. Some as late as 40 weeks and even when the woman is in labor.

[Oscar_Kipling]

Just speaking for myself…

 because I don’t really give a rats rear about having conversations critical of huge swaths of  people for generalized beliefs that have absolutely nothing to do with me or my life

Mosy hypotheticals are extraordinarily boring and diatribes about what some other human may or may not do in someone else’s fantasy is frankly as boring as hell

that's fair enough, I can see how I might feel similarly if you were going on about some general atheist shortcomings that I don't relate to. While I don't particularly revel in boring you guys it's far more comfortable, familiar and in line with who I am than an intelligence obsessed goon expressing fabricated opinions derived from imagined experiences for the sake of trolling. hopefully at some point i'll say something of interest and perhaps we can have a conversation about that.

I cannot help but wonder how you haven't bored yourself to tears with your own diatribe and hypothetical scenario of shortages, riots, unrest and spiritual warfare at unprecedented scales....I guess when I wonder aloud if Christians will turn their energy with new focus and zeal toward helping folks in situations that "some" of them claim to care about when faced with a legislative reality that may or may not come to pass, its just boring as hell daydreaming that isn't worth a rat's rear much less a conversation, but when you predict that your brethren should gather provisions for an equally prognostic scenario of societal tumult, persecution and paucity of basic resources precipitated by large swaths of people with generalized beliefs I can only assume that you feel it is fundamentally different and worthy of at least a rat's hindquarters and probably of serious consideration and some measure of reasoned conversation. I suspect that what has instigated your boredom, injury and indignation may have less to do with what i've said in the categorical sense than what I represent in your worldview. or maybe not who knows.

[Oscar_Kipling]

I see that the left is freaking out over this. I'm a little baffled. Overturning Roe only means that there's no federal right to an abortion. Many (most?) states will permit it anyway. Some as late as 40 weeks and even when the woman is in labor.

Yeah I do get the distinct impression that many on the left believe that roe overturned equals abortion instantly outlawed everywhere, but also to be fair I think for many it is the principle of the thing and for others still it is concern for those who don't live in blue bastions of liberal thought. I also get the impression that many are "freaking out" about the cases at the margins, the life or death circumstances where an abortion procedure has value as a life saving measure will simply be unavailable in certain parts of the US creating an inequity in healthcare for some folks cursed by geography. all that to say I think that the freak out is real ,frequently misinformed and broadly multi-faceted.

[ProDeo]

In the instance of abortion, a life is terminated. Every time.

Only those who are already born support abortion.

[ProDeo]

i've often fantasized about Roe v Wade being overturned or the  criminalization of abortion, mostly because I am extremely curious about what Pro life Christians will do with all of the energy, intellect and creativity they have been putting into this fight. I wonder will all that love and compassion and deep respect for the lives of the unborn be transposed into becoming equally vocal, focused, determined and financially supportive in helping mothers/parents and children who are in situations where they are ill suited, woefully unprepared and/or frighteningly lacking resources needed to shepard that newborn into healthy adulthood. I wonder will they take to the streets with equal fervor to then address food insecurity, healthcare access, housing, living wages, education equality, disproportionate pollution in economically depressed communities and so on? With the dense dark fog of abortion finally cleared from their eyes will Christians in America be able to clearly see the other areas where they can serve underserved families and communities and help to nourish those babies into childhood and those children into adulthood? With the great torturous weight of abortion lifted from their shoulders, will they feel strong and nimble enough to pour untold energy into the lives of the very people who would have previously utilized abortion, to guide, and sometimes even carry them over and through the challenging terrain of child rearing? Will they now focus all of that legislative cunning and dexterity to come up with wildly imaginative legal solutions to some of the problems that many of those would-have-been abortion recipients have toiled under for generations? Will they all unify beneath the banner of pro-life and expand its meaning to encompass the rest of that child's life, and the parent's lives and the community's lives so that they can lessen burdens, impart wisdom and supply resources to address the struggles that come after birth? 

I mean, If something like that were to happen, if Christians approached the lives of the post-born with the same zeal, fervor, long term persistence and utter disregard for individual autonomy,  then who among us could deny that it actually was all about love all along, that this fight was in service of lifting us up and providing benevolent guidance and not about forcing free individuals with different beliefs and mindsets into behaving as you dictate they should...Of course that's just what I fantasize happening, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if all that excess energy is reinvested into another long and intense fight to force free individuals with different beliefs and mindsets into behaving as you dictate they should instead of merely ensuring that your own behaviors are aligned with your own beliefs as a free individual.   

I once saw a video of an abortion, a camera went in also. What was seen is a fetus fighting for his/her life trying to escape from the scissors, eventually to no avail. That little human did not want to die, he/she wanted to live.

Then when the scissors got him/her the head of the boy/girl was cracked else the fetus could not get out because women don't have dilation. Then the fetus was dumped in a pedal bin. Human scrap. You must have a good stomach to watch.

[ProDeo]

I see that the left is freaking out over this. I'm a little baffled. Overturning Roe only means that there's no federal right to an abortion. Many (most?) states will permit it anyway. Some as late as 40 weeks and even when the woman is in labor.

Lemme me try to understand if I read the bold part right, in some of your states women can have an abortion in week 40?

[Athanasius]

Yes, of course I do what I can because its actually important to me.

Does doing what you can overlap with what you described earlier?

So is there a way to criticize behaviors I've seen in christian communities even though they do not represent every Christian down to a man? Like what if when you were criticizing the "west"  and its obsession with cheap chocolate I brought up my vegan friend who stopped eating chocolate?

You're free to call me on such broad generalisations, and then we can discuss how appropriate those generalisations are when they concern a ~10 billion dollar market (for example). Of course, I'm talking about an entire social structure, not nebulous Christians, nebulous Muslims, or nebulous atheists.

I know you all understand the concept of speaking generally about pervasive problems so I dont get why I keep getting singled out  and i'm constantly forced into explaining that I don't mean every single christian, but this is something i've seen and experienced and I wanted to bring it up. like just read what I write and take the same things you would take for granted with any other normal not insane person.

Because in part you're preaching to the choir and it's repetitive to hear about "what if Christians..." when Christians are already doing those things. Christians who picket abortion clinics then do nothing to help young mothers are celebrated only in their own minds.

[IMINXTC]

I don't see changes coming soon in my state where abortion is statutorily regarded as a privacy issue between a mother and doctor and is protected under the constitution, though the overturning of Roe is publicly lauded by the governor.


Added: The public skirmishes here around 1973 were fierce.

[IMINXTC]

Thinking of friends on the previous manifestation of this board, now longtime having passed way.

If they were here to witness the overturnning of Roe vs Wade...

But surely they have moved on.

[RabbiKnife]

Momma V would be screaming!!!!

[IMINXTC]

Momma V would be screaming!!!!

Yes. She certainly would.

[ProDeo]

One of these scenes I remember from House M.D.

[Fenris]

Lemme me try to understand if I read the bold part right, in some of your states women can have an abortion in week 40?

And while the woman is in labor, yes. It's barbaric.

[Athanasius]

Lemme me try to understand if I read the bold part right, in some of your states women can have an abortion in week 40?

And while the woman is in labor, yes. It's barbaric.

In the UK you can abort a baby with down syndrome right up until birth.