Moral Courage or Foolishness? Ukraine.

[IMINXTC]

Russia is being played, by Putin, difficult as it is to witness. And unless things happen from within, there seems to be very little to staunch the hemorrhage. The fall of Russia, nukes notwithstanding.

So would you agree with Lindsay Graham and Sean Hannity that generals around Putin should try to "take him out?" Not an American assassination, but one encouraged by American individuals outside of official govt policy?

 I said nothing about  assassination.

[RabbiKnife]

Only lawful at Gods direct command to His judges.

Oh that’s right

No more judges…

[Athanasius]

So much talk about the West fixing Russia, when Russians need to fix Russia. Will that ever happen when the US plays the evil Russians card constantly and Russians are fed the lie that Americans are the eternal enemies of the glorious would-be USSR union of Soviets? Not a chance.

[Fenris]

It seems you don't believe your own Bible?

Isa 13.I will punish the world for its evil,
    the wicked for their sins.
I will put an end to the arrogance of the haughty
    and will humble the pride of the ruthless.

So here's the thing. When something bad happens to an individual, the bible tells us we are to examine our behavior and reflect on how it might be God sending us a message for course correction. That's when something happens to one's self.

When something bad happens to another person, however, our mission as God-fearing people is to help relieve that suffering. Not stand on the sidelines and tell them that it's a punishment form God that they must richly deserve.

I find it very disheartening that some Christians are so comfortable observing human suffering and not feeling the need to do anything whatsoever, but to rather justify the tragedy as being "deserved".

It so reminds me of Rabbi Baeck's critique of Christianity:

This finished perfected justice, this self-assurance of the possessing, has also often found expression in a tranquil, comfortable, almost smug indifference. Being satisfied with itself, the Church was capable of beholding a great deal without being at all upset. Since it considered itself a world apart, it could leave many matters in this world to take care of themselves. Having issued from divine grace, the pious faith was superior to everything impermanent and human; hence it could regard earthly deeds, of whatever character, as something inferior and indifferent, as beneath it. So one was prepared to overlook and discount and indulge anything: the correct faith was easily satisfied with itself for "whoever believes in him is just."
A good deal of Church history is the history of all the things which neither hurt nor encroached upon this piety, all the outrages and all the baseness which this piety was able to tolerate with an assured and undisturbed soul and an untroubled faith. And a spirit is characterized not only by what it does but, no less, by what it permits, what it forgives, and what it beholds in silence. The Christian religion, very much including Protestantism, has been able to maintain silence about so much that it is difficult to say what has been more pernicious in the course of time: the intolerance which committed the wrongs or the indifference which beheld them unperturbed. Perhaps such indifference is even more romantic than intolerance, for it is more passive. It is wholly fitting for the faith which does not want to wrestle and act, but is content to wait and experience; it is entirely commensurate with the repudiation of the Law. The moral duty of justice and the fight for justice are associated with the phase that lies in the past and has been overcome.

Amazingly, he wrote this before the Holocaust (which he survived).

[Fenris]

I’ll still waiting to hear what the loss of the hotbed of cybercriminality, human trafficking, bio weapons labs, and international banking fraud and money laundering means to the US and Europe.

Ukraine has been quietly destroying the two native Russian areas of Ukraine for years… Ukraine is just a larger version of the Balkans.

This is exactly what Putin is saying.

Putin is no hero for sure.  He is an opportunistic megalomaniac but I’m still having trouble seeing how this entire tempest in a teapot has any impact in the US other than covering for the catastrophe that is the Biden administration

I'm reminded of a quote by Camus.

“Perhaps we cannot prevent this world from being a world in which children are tortured. But we can reduce the number of tortured children.”

[RabbiKnife]

That’s the problem with trying to make a decision between the lesser of two evils.  Both sides can be making true statements and both be completely evil.

Putin is indeed evil and a megalomaniac
The Ukraine is incredible corrupt.

No white hats

[journeyman]

We see all these heart-breaking pictures of people leaving in droves, losing their home and possessions, and their men. And yet biblically, we know that divine judgment comes to corrupt nations.

We have no permanent home here and sometimes the innocent suffer through no fault of their own. Our Lord showed us this,

But all these things will they do unto you for my name's sake, because they know not him that sent me. Jn.15:21

[Athanasius]

Yes, that's been a major dilemma. We see all these heart-breaking pictures of people leaving in droves, losing their home and possessions, and their men. And yet biblically, we know that divine judgment comes to corrupt nations.

And then Job turned to his friend Randy and replied... Or perhaps Abraham said, "Far be it from you [Lord] to do such a thing -- to kill the righteous with the wicked, treating the righteous and the wicked alike". I very much doubt this is divine justice.

What it is, is:

- A megalomaniacal leader who has clearly lost his mind or is in the grips of desperation (impending death?). Either must be the case because everyone knows, even Putin, that a good way to lose a war is to invade Ukraine. This has always been known.
- A country that has gone apoplectic at the thought of US missile defence systems in Eastern Europe; EU and NATO membership for Ukraine, the possibility of US military basis in Crimea. Think missiles in Cuba. What outrage would the US engage in should Russia or Iran set up basis in Canada, or Mexico?
- Evil men who will say they were only obeying orders. Driving a tank blowing up cars with old couples in them is not justice. What was the evil Job's dead family did, again?

There's no need to bring God into it, as Ukraine had begun working on its corruption. Ukraine should have always been a buffer: no NATO, no military basis, and everyone leave it alone. Military parades for NATO leaders were a stupid show of force and intention, but that in no way excuses Russia. This is a stupid, senseless, needless war that ought to have been handled diplomatically.

Putin is clearly not of his right mind, so all bets are off.

[RabbiKnife]

[Fenris]

Putin is indeed evil and a megalomaniac
The Ukraine is incredible corrupt.

No white hats

Lots of evil can be ignored in this manner. And so it has. German Anschluss of Austria in 1938. German dismemberment of Czechoslovakia in 1939. German invasion of Poland in 1939. German invasion of the Soviet Union in 1941. The Holocaust was underway in 1941. And yet we sat on our thumbs and did nothing until Hitler declared war on us.

How much evil are we willing to excuse under the guise of "no white hats"?

A spirit is characterized not only by what it does but, no less, by what it permits, what it forgives, and what it beholds in silence.

[Fenris]

We have no permanent home here and sometimes the innocent suffer through no fault of their own.

And while they are suffering, what are we supposed to do? Are we not our brother's keeper?

[IMINXTC]

Renege on cease-fires and shell Ukrainian citizens. 
To what end?

This buffoon of a dictator is likely not above tossing a nuke, but then who would cooperate with him in initiating the sequences?
No-one, imo.

Predictably, it will be a long, painful ordeal until his demise.

[journeyman]

And while they are suffering, what are we supposed to do? Are we not our brother's keeper?

Yes and also strangers. We should support safe havens for people fleeing from those who want to harm them.

[Fenris]

Yes and also strangers. We should support safe havens for people fleeing from those who want to harm them.

That's very nice. And the people there who can't flee? What should we do for them?

[journeyman]

Yes and also strangers. We should support safe havens for people fleeing from those who want to harm them.

That's very nice. And the people there who can't flee? What should we do for them?

Aid them in whatever hinders them from traveling.