what is your lens: Historicist / Futurist / Idealist / Preterist ... etc

[IMINXTC]

Thanks to the televangelist rage of the 70's, the rebirth of Israel had become the de-facto sign of the end of time, with the imminent rapture of the Church being the sensationalized headline of most Gospel messages.

As a newly formed political entity under the UN charter since 1948 and particularly following the six-day-war of 1967, many had interpreted the events as the fulfillment of prophecy and calculated the return of Christ to be either 70 years or 40 years from Israel's new beginning, depending on how one interprets "generation."

[RabbiKnife]

In either event, “oops”

[RandyPNW]

Historicist / Futurist / Idealist / Preterist

Is there a readers digest condensed version of what these things mean?

A historicist, a futurist, an idealist and a preterist walk into a bar. Well, they're walking into a bar, or they will walk into a bar? They would walk into a bar except the bar is symbolic. Because actually, they walked into a bar long ago, or only some of the bar?

It depends on whether the story was fully, partly, or just maybe inspired. Maybe God, whoever she is, may have just intended to pass on a moral lesson, and is saying the same kinds of things through horoscopes.

Okay there, Bill, calm down.

Sorry, I was just jokingly alluding to real beliefs. Just because there are myriad beliefs in Christianity does not mean all beliefs are legitimate. However, a good pastor friend of mine struggled with the question: is God a He? Some women's liberationists  defiantly claim God is a she, whereas some defiant Blacks claim God is  Black.

These are irrelevant matters to the question of whether Scriptural prophecies can be viewed as clearly fulfilled. There will always be liberal theologians of the extreme skeptical kind who may believe that the prophecies about Jesus are hardly proof either of his messiahship or his divinity.

On the other  hand, some of us find it nearly impossible to escape the many allusions to Jesus and his cross in the Jewish prophecies. So yes, it's always arguable. But that doesn't mean truth is unknowable.

Some will always reject modern prophetic fulfillment. Some, like myself, are suffering an avalanche of prophetic fulfillment--it's literally all around me!

[Rebecca]

Interesting thread

[ProDeo]

Interesting thread

Let me welcome you with my not so common view.

1. In the Olivet discourse (Matt 24) Jesus is speaking to Israel, that generation, not us.

2. The great tribulation is on Israel, on that particular generation, it already happened. AD70.

3. What's is called "the rapture" among Christians already happened likely during the siege on Jerusalem around AD 67/68. Compare Luke 9:26-27 with 1 Thess 4:15-17, 1 Cor 15:51-52, Matt 24:40-41, see passages below.

4. All Jesus warnings such as - Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. Even in Revelation, count the words "soon" and if John received his vision before AD70 soon really means soon and not 2000 years later.

------

Luke 9:26 - For whoever is ashamed of me and of my words, of him will the Son of Man be ashamed when he comes in his glory and the glory of the Father and of the holy angels. 27 But I tell you truly, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the kingdom of God.”

1 Thess 4:15 - For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.

1 Cor 15:51 - Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed.

Matt 24:40-41 - Then two men will be in the field; one will be taken and one left. 41 Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one left.

[RabbiKnife]

Rapture is certainly not held by all contemporary Christians

[Rebecca]

Interesting thread

Let me welcome you with my not so common view.

1. In the Olivet discourse (Matt 24) Jesus is speaking to Israel, that generation, not us.

2. The great tribulation is on Israel, on that particular generation, it already happened. AD70.

3. What's is called "the rapture" among Christians already happened likely during the siege on Jerusalem around AD 67/68. Compare Luke 9:26-27 with 1 Thess 4:15-17, 1 Cor 15:51-52, Matt 24:40-41, see passages below.

4. All Jesus warnings such as - Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. Even in Revelation, count the words "soon" and if John received his vision before AD70 soon really means soon and not 2000 years later.

------

Luke 9:26 - For whoever is ashamed of me and of my words, of him will the Son of Man be ashamed when he comes in his glory and the glory of the Father and of the holy angels. 27 But I tell you truly, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the kingdom of God.”

1 Thess 4:15 - For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.

1 Cor 15:51 - Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed.

Matt 24:40-41 - Then two men will be in the field; one will be taken and one left. 41 Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one left.

Posting with out studying your post  deeply. i tend to agree

[ProDeo]

Rapture is certainly not held by all contemporary Christians

Correct, I wasn't convinced either about the rapture to happen in our time or later. Putting it in the AD 30-70 time line it fits better.

[RabbiKnife]

I don’t think there is any biblical support for a rapture event

[Rebecca]

The title of this thread is what drew me to this forum. Scofield's version of dispensationalism just didnt set well in my later years. Other then dispensationalism would be interested in your thoughts, reasons, of why you believe as you do . Including your Bible back up.  Part of what pulled me from dispensationalism was believing Jesus knows the difference between  'this and that'. The Olivet Discourse was told to 'that' generation.

[Fenris]

I am a biblical literalist. The Jewish people will be gathered back to the land of Israel, a third temple will be built in Jerusalem, a king from the line of David will sit on the throne, etc etc.

[Rebecca]

Thanks for the reply.  How literally do you take, understand, follow, etc., your Scriptures.

[Fenris]

Thanks for the reply.  How literally do you take, understand, follow, etc., your Scriptures.

As I said elsewhere, it depends on the scripture in question. In terms of what the messianic era looks like? No better example than Ezekiel 37-

Thus saith the Lord GOD: Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the nations, whither they are gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land; and I will make them one nation in the land, upon the mountains of Israel, and one king shall be king to them all; and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all; neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions; but I will save them out of all their dwelling-places, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them; so shall they be My people, and I will be their God. And My servant David shall be king over them, and they all shall have one shepherd; they shall also walk in Mine ordinances, and observe My statutes, and do them. And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob My servant, wherein your fathers dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, they, and their children, and their children’s children, for ever; and David My servant shall be their prince for ever. Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them—it shall be an everlasting covenant with them; and I will establish them, and multiply them, and will set My sanctuary in the midst of them for ever. My dwelling-place also shall be over them; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. And the nations shall know that I am the LORD that sanctify Israel, when My sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for ever.’

So what do we have?

Jewish exiles gathered back to the land of Israel
One kingdom, not the kingdoms of Judah and Israel
No more idol worship
A king from the line of David on the throne
Scrupulous observance of the law
No further exiles
A rebuilt and permanent temple (described in great detail later in the book of Ezekiel)
The nations knowledge that God sanctifies Israel.

So in this case, pretty literally I guess?

[Rebecca]

Fenris

As I said elsewhere, it depends on the scripture in question. In terms of what the messianic era looks like? No better example than Ezekiel 37-

Not any different then way too many Christians .  

Lets see if code works  ....yes it works  and i found the edit button

[Fenris]

Not any different then way too many Christians .

It's not for me to decide what Christians should believe.