US Russian Hoax

[Fenris]

Let's bring this back into focus. I said:
"Keep in mind that to Christians who believe the Bible, Jews were exiled into foreign countries not to experience freedom and blessing, but rather, to learn service to God under harsh conditions, to experience the wages of sinful living. Living in a Christian country should bring accommodation to a non-Jewish State."

This point reminds me of a thought I heard from Rabbi Kushner. He relays the following exchange-

I was once asked at a public lecture: "Doesn't the history of the Jews wandering and low status prove that they are being cursed for rejecting Jesus?

I answered, "No, not at all, because the people who predicted that the Jews would suffer are the same people who persecuted them. It would be as if I predicted that a window would break, and then threw a rock at it. That would say more about my propensity for violence than my gift of prophecy".

[Fenris]

While it's generally believed Deut 28 is linked to the Babylon capacity it's also compatible to a large extend with the Jewish history from AD 70 till today peeking during the Holocaust.

It certainly is. That doesn't mean that Christians should take it upon themselves to "fulfill" the bible's prophecies by heaping suffering on the Jews. And yet, for so much of Christian history, many Christians have done just that. RandyPNW, here, thinks that it's some kind of religious obligation. Another awesome quote of his (and he's building quite the library here)

God's anger towards the Jews could be assuaged and would abate. God's patience, mercy, and kindness are infinite. However, ours are not.

So he justifies Jewish suffering at the hands of Christians because the Jews obviously deserve it. Obviously.

I can't think of a less Christian message. But them, I am not a Christian. So that's up for you guys to decide.

[ProDeo]

From Deut 28, one the scariest chapters of the Scriptures.

64 “And the LORD will scatter you among all peoples, from one end of the earth to the other, and there you shall serve other gods of wood and stone, which neither you nor your fathers have known.

65 And among these nations you shall find no respite, and there shall be no resting place for the sole of your foot, but the LORD will give you there a trembling heart and failing eyes and a languishing soul.

66 Your life shall hang in doubt before you. Night and day you shall be in dread and have no assurance of your life.

67 In the morning you shall say, ‘If only it were evening!’ and at evening you shall say, ‘If only it were morning!’ because of the dread that your heart shall feel, and the sights that your eyes shall see.

68 And the LORD will bring you back in ships to Egypt, a journey that I promised that you should never make again; and there you shall offer yourselves for sale to your enemies as male and female slaves, but there will be no buyer.”

While it's generally believed Deut 28 is linked to the Babylon capacity it's also compatible to a large extend with the Jewish history from AD 70 till today peeking during the Holocaust.

Thank you. It needs to be said. And it has nothing at all to do with hate for the Jews. God's anger towards the Jews could be assuaged and would abate. God's patience, mercy, and kindness are infinite. However, ours are not.

I don't understand the part I colored red.

Look at Deut 28:63 - And as the LORD took delight in doing you good and multiplying you, so the LORD will take delight in bringing ruin upon you and destroying you.

The Lord taking delight in destruction? That's even more harsh than Gen 6:7

The Lord has unfinished business with Israel (Romans 11), not our business, it's between God and Israel, we as historic main prosecutors are the last ones to judge them.   

[Athanasius]

It begs the question: why have Jews exhausted 'our' patience, mercy and kindness?

[RabbiKnife]

They haven’t

If we love Jesus
If we live Jesus

[RandyPNW]

It begs the question: why have Jews exhausted 'our' patience, mercy and kindness?

I'm confessing that Christianity is less patient than God. Many, many Christians down through the centuries grew impatient with the Jewish People because they did not convert to Christianity.

In fact, Replacement Theology came into existence precisely because of that reason. Christians thought that if the Jewish People never repent, "Israel" must be a name actually applying to the Church. Otherwise, prophecy cannot be fulfilled that had to do with Israel's final salvation.

Our Bible positively states that the generation of Jesus began a punishment from God upon the Jews that will last throughout the NT age. But that doesn't mean the Jewish people cannot free themselves from the problems that initially contributed to their national punishment. Paul said that only a "remnant" succeeds in doing this, however.

God set in motion a "punishment" upon Israel, not necessarily implicating all generations of Jews, but largely, the generation in which the punishment was put into motion. Following generations paid a price for this. The antagonism initiated by the Jewish People against Christ cannot be fully exterminated apart from a complete repentance from the part of the Jewish Religion that contained this.

I'm advocating for leniency towards the Jewish People. I just know that realistically, the same old hostility between Jew and Christian will continue. For God, it has nothing to do with bigotry--He is patient with all, desiring repentance, but without which there can only be punishment.

The Christian Peoples have the same problem as the Jewish People. Having known God, they sinned in the knowledge of what sin was, and incur a greater punishment. European Civilization has suffered a great number of disasters, including plagues and wars. What was God's "justice" towards the Jew is the same "justice" towards the Christian.

I would also advocate for leniency for the Christian. If he repents of his sins against others and against God Himself, they can be forgiven and restored. The same for the Jewish People. Israel will be restored in the end.

[RandyPNW]

From Deut 28, one the scariest chapters of the Scriptures.

64 “And the LORD will scatter you among all peoples, from one end of the earth to the other, and there you shall serve other gods of wood and stone, which neither you nor your fathers have known.

65 And among these nations you shall find no respite, and there shall be no resting place for the sole of your foot, but the LORD will give you there a trembling heart and failing eyes and a languishing soul.

66 Your life shall hang in doubt before you. Night and day you shall be in dread and have no assurance of your life.

67 In the morning you shall say, ‘If only it were evening!’ and at evening you shall say, ‘If only it were morning!’ because of the dread that your heart shall feel, and the sights that your eyes shall see.

68 And the LORD will bring you back in ships to Egypt, a journey that I promised that you should never make again; and there you shall offer yourselves for sale to your enemies as male and female slaves, but there will be no buyer.”

While it's generally believed Deut 28 is linked to the Babylon capacity it's also compatible to a large extend with the Jewish history from AD 70 till today peeking during the Holocaust.

Thank you. It needs to be said. And it has nothing at all to do with hate for the Jews. God's anger towards the Jews could be assuaged and would abate. God's patience, mercy, and kindness are infinite. However, ours are not.

I don't understand the part I colored red.

Look at Deut 28:63 - And as the LORD took delight in doing you good and multiplying you, so the LORD will take delight in bringing ruin upon you and destroying you.

The Lord taking delight in destruction? That's even more harsh than Gen 6:7

The Lord has unfinished business with Israel (Romans 11), not our business, it's between God and Israel, we as historic main prosecutors are the last ones to judge them.

God is harsh towards the recalcitrant, but merciful towards those willing to soften their hearts. Even when an entire society is engulfed in group think of a bad kind, and believe in license to do immoral things and behave wickedly towards minorities, God can have mercy on the few who do not sanction such things, who do not wish to act like this.

The Jewish nation is nothing but a model for all nations of the world. They were given a theocracy, a covenant relationship with God, including a Law to live by. And the majority ultimately capitulated to human selfishness.

This is an example to Christian nations who have entered into a covenant relationship with God through Christ. But these same peoples also capitulated to humanism, and to tolerance towards aberrant lifestyles.

In the end there will be judgment. But the few who repent or remain aloof from such sinful activities will be forgiven and restored.

[Athanasius]

I'm confessing that Christianity is less patient than God. Many, many Christians down through the centuries grew impatient with the Jewish People because they did not convert to Christianity.

I'm not following. Are you saying that Christians through the centuries have greatly sinned against the Jewish people, or that God has used Christians to punish the Jewish people for their - that is, the Jews - obstinance?

I'm having difficulty understanding how any of what you said answers my questions. Why are Christians in a position such that they're acting against Jews, who have exhausted the patience, kindness, mercy, etc. of Christians? It sounds to me like a convenient way to excuse the egregious sins of Christians against Jews over the millennia.

[RandyPNW]

I'm confessing that Christianity is less patient than God. Many, many Christians down through the centuries grew impatient with the Jewish People because they did not convert to Christianity.

I'm not following. Are you saying that Christians through the centuries have greatly sinned against the Jewish people, or that God has used Christians to punish the Jewish people for their - that is, the Jews - obstinance?

I'm saying that Christians have not been as patient as God would have them to be. We should be more understanding of what the Jews have gone through as Christians, because we should be self-aware of our own sins. Having received grace we should be willing to give it. And having been judged harshly, at times, as God's People, we should know what it's like for Jews to be God's People and have to undergo God's disciplines.

[IMINXTC]

The Jewish nation is nothing but a model for all nations of the world. They were given a theocracy, a covenant relationship with God, including a Law to live by. And the majority ultimately capitulated to human selfishness.

The Biblical truth is that Israel is in a state of unbelief, having rejected Christ.

"Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee." Rm 11:20,21

 "And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again." Rm11:23

This is an example to Christian nations who have entered into a covenant relationship with God through Christ.

Not trying to be picky but there are no Christian nations who have entered into a covenant relationship with God through Christ. Israel is God's nation; there are no others. God currently inhabits the Church, which resides in all nations, even the geographical, political nation of Israel.

You speak of nations having covenant relationships with God through Christ. No such thing exists and so important.

Christ, who is God, inhabits the Church through and by the faith of individual believers, Jews and Gentiles alike.

[ProDeo]

I'm confessing that Christianity is less patient than God. Many, many Christians down through the centuries grew impatient with the Jewish People because they did not convert to Christianity.

I'm not following. Are you saying that Christians through the centuries have greatly sinned against the Jewish people, or that God has used Christians to punish the Jewish people for their - that is, the Jews - obstinance?

I'm saying that Christians have not been as patient as God would have them to be.

So, when you said : God's patience, mercy, and kindness are infinite. However, ours are not. you were speaking about Christianity and it was not your personal stance? It certainly read as such. But then I am not a native English speaker.

[Athanasius]

I'm confessing that Christianity is less patient than God. Many, many Christians down through the centuries grew impatient with the Jewish People because they did not convert to Christianity.

I'm not following. Are you saying that Christians through the centuries have greatly sinned against the Jewish people, or that God has used Christians to punish the Jewish people for their - that is, the Jews - obstinance?

I'm saying that Christians have not been as patient as God would have them to be.

So, when you said : God's patience, mercy, and kindness are infinite. However, ours are not. you were speaking about Christianity and it was not your personal stance? It certainly read as such. But then I am not a native English speaker.

It was incredibly poorly phrased.

[Fenris]

There's something else of note in this whole Russian invasion of the Ukraine. The singling out of the state of Israel.

The media and American politicians has been criticizing Israel for "not doing enough" to help the Ukraine.

For example, Israel has stated that they would take every single Jewish refugee that wanted to come (that is Israel's raison detre after all) plus an additional 25,000 non-Jewish refugees. This has led to much talk of Israel being "racist" for excluding non Jews. When this talk first started, no country that was not bordering the Ukraine was taking any refugees. The UK took 50. 50!! The United States has accepted less than 700. But tiny Israel is racist for taking only 25,000.

And talk about Israel being a "bad ally". Outright lies that Israel has not condemned Russia (they have) or that they were slow to adopt sanctions against Russia (which they were, initially, and the reason is very obvious: Syria. Obama's in action in the middle east allowed Russia to establish a considerable presence in Syria; and when Israel interdicts Iranian aid to Hizbullah, they need tacit Russian permission to do so. So they have a balancing act to perform). And the US is being a bad ally to Israel (and the Saudis and the Gulf States too) by working on a nuclear deal with Iran, being mediated by (of all people) the Russians! The deal would give Iran $100 billion in cash, take all of Iranian terrorists off sanction lists, including the mastermind of the bombing of the US Marine barracks in Beirut (killing 241 US service members) and the planner of the Jewish center bombing in Argentina (killing 85) AND give them a clear pathway to nuclear weapons.

There really is no explanation for this aside from good old fashioned Jew hatred.

[RabbiKnife]

Well,  you know.... Joooooooooooos.

I never cease to be amazed at the "spin doctors" and their insistence that the equation "x = any historically oppressed people group, except Jews" whenever they want to play either the victim or oppressor game.

Seriously, you can't tell the players without a scorecard.

History, reality, logic... all go out the window.  Israel is damned if they do, damned if they don't.

[Fenris]

I'm reminded of a thought by Sigmund Freud.

"As far as anti-Semitism is concerned, I don't really want to go searching for explanations for it; I have a very strong tendency to surrender to my emotions on this matter, and I find that I have received confirmation for my totally unscientific belief that humanity is for the most part quite a pathetic and miserable rabble".