Gog's endtime construction?

[Quantrill]

I'm really concerned. The US is so morally compromised now, and this from a country that has had two great awakenings and some of the greatest evangelists this world has ever known! Tremendous satellite broadcasts into all the world, and many missionary programs and compassionate efforts at helping the world.

So if Sodom and Gomorrah perished, how will the US escape? My only confidence is that there remains many good people still here in the US. I'm hoping the pendulum will swing back towards God and morality.

The lack of info in the Bible about America is of little concern--it's an old book. When it mentions the 4th Beast, which I believe is European Civilization, that would include the far parts of the earth that European Civilization reaches into, including the US.

I don't think God is ever quick to destroy any nation. Even the Canaanite nations went unpunished to any great degree for hundreds of years before God told Israel to defeat and to destroy them. A long as the righteous are here, we can pray. If necessary, judgment will come as God sees fit. In reality, judgment is already partly here.

I agree that the U.S. has been a great Christian light in the world.  And she has been used by God to further the Gospel and the support of missionaries around the world.  Which, in my opinion, is worse for her as she has sinned though having that light.  She had the light and actively participated in getting the truth of God to the world.  She now actively participates in stifling the truth of God.

As to America not being mentioned in the Bible, you could be right that we become part of the 4th beast.  But I am not of that opinion.  It's my opinion that God created America for a purpose.  That purpose being a place of refuge for the Jews and Christians in the world and an instrument to help establish and support the nation Israel back in the land.  As time draws near the end when God will begin His work in bringing  Israel back to Him, our purpose has ended.  Thus revival would no more be needed and judgement would result. 

As to God not being quick to judge a nation in the past, that is true.  But you must remember that as man progresses, or digresses, so does wickedness.   What may have taken hundreds of years in the past now takes but  a few years.   And, as I mentioned, we have sinned against a lot of light.  But, of course our judgement would coincide with God's purpose now turning back to Israel.

As to God not destroying the righteous with the wicked, that is a valid point.  But just as with Israel when God destroyed her with Babylon there were believers there.  But even they had been corrupted so that judgement was necessary.  To those who did remain true to God I believe God would take care of them in their captivity.

I see most here reject the Rapture as Biblical. I disagree.  And it is here that I believe the Rapture plays a role.  Why?  Because it removes all the believing from the earth allowing God to turn lose His judgements upon the world.  It is my opinion that most countries will have minimal damage or affect as their Christian population is minimal.  That includes Europe which is now only Christian in name.  But, the U.S. has many Christians in it from every class and position in society.  Thus she would be terribly affected allowing a swift destruction to follow. 

Lees

[Fenris]

It is certainly an interesting time that we live in.  For me, it is more telling concerning the U.S.  Slowly the U.S. has been moving away from it's Christian roots.  And this has many ramifications.  One of which is our support for Israel.  We have come to a place now where Israel does not know if she can trust us anymore for support. 

And rightfully so.  She can't. 

I'm not certain if this is true or not. This country didn't support Israel in the run up to the 6 day war in 1967, and that made the war inevitable. We didn't initially support Israel in the Yom Kippur war in 1973, until the IDF was running out of ammunition and spare parts and communicated to President Nixon that the state was in danger of being overrun. At that point he instructed the Joint Chiefs to "send everything that can fly."

Regardless, Israel's survival is guaranteed at this point. God did not fulfill biblical prophecy and bring the Jews from the four corners of the world back to their ancestral homeland just to kill them all. In order for that to be true, the radical Jihadist Muslims would have to have the correct theology, and none of us here believe that's possible. Rather, the important point is what role this country serves in Israel's survival. In the book of Esther, Mordechai exhorts Esther to intercede with the king on behalf of the Jewish people, whose very existence is being threatened. He says, "For if you remain silent at this time, relief and deliverance for the Jews will arise from another place, but you and your father’s family will perish. And who knows but that you have come to your royal position for such a time as this?” (Esther 4:14). Do we want to play a positive role in Israel survival? Or are we going to be bystanders and let someone else get the merit of being God's tool? The choice is ours.

[Athanasius]

It's always a bit odd this idea of America "moving away from" its Christian roots. Were expansionist policies Christian? Did the US only install Christian dictators? Was American's interference in Iran what lead to the current Christian treatment of women and minorities over there? What about the slave trade or the treatment of native Americans? How about the treatment of Japanese Americans? There's always experimentation on its citizens, or allowing its companies to experiment on African populations. And on, and on, and on.

If America were Christian at its roots, wouldn't it have started moving away a few hundred years ago? Or maybe we should simply dispel this myth of America the great Christian nation! Not from where I'm sitting.

[RabbiKnife]

It's always a bit odd this idea of America "moving away from" its Christian roots. Were expansionist policies Christian? Did the US only install Christian dictators? Was American's interference in Iran what lead to the current Christian treatment of women and minorities over there? What about the slave trade or the treatment of native Americans? How about the treatment of Japanese Americans? There's always experimentation on its citizens, or allowing its companies to experiment on African populations. And on, and on, and on.

If America were Christian at its roots, wouldn't it have started moving away a few hundred years ago? Or maybe we should simply dispel this myth of America the great Christian nation! Not from where I'm sitting.

Look, you're just made because you are from Canuckistan and fled your homeland to live with the First Losers, I mean, the British!  Or Scotchists.

 

It is unquestionable that the USA was founded more on the ideas of independence and ideals arising from the Enlightenment than from the Bible.  Granted, the original colonies were in some part colonized by those escaping religious persecution, but the USA was hardly a missionary endeavor.  For instance, Georgia was a penal colony, Maryland was for those blasted Catholics, the silver buckle boys with the square hats were in Massachusetts, but ALL of them were for the  purposes of commerce.

The fact that many of the leaders of the country at the time of the revolution were Godly men doesn't change the fact that the USA was not First Baptist - North America or even Congregationalist.  The individual states could establish denominations to receive tax dollars, but not nationally.

So yes, from the time of the revolution and some before many of the principles of government aligned with Biblical principles, and many (but not all) of the Founders believed in basic morality as the core principles of life and government,and some believed that only a godly people could govern themselves, but I've always been bothered a bit by this false narrative that "THE USA IS A CHRISTIAN NATION"

And yes, I've read everything that whatshisname has written on the topic and its just not compelling argument.

[Athanasius]

Look, you're just made because you are from Canuckistan and fled your homeland to live with the First Losers, I mean, the British!  Or Scotchists.

 

The Scots are just mad they couldn't expel the English as the Americans did. In fact, they're still going on talking about oppression and imposition. I think they should get together with Quebec and have a good cry over afternoon tea.

[RabbiKnife]

Look, you're just made because you are from Canuckistan and fled your homeland to live with the First Losers, I mean, the British!  Or Scotchists.

 

The Scots are just mad they couldn't expel the English as the Americans did. In fact, they're still going on talking about oppression and imposition. I think they should get together with Quebec and have a good cry over afternoon tea.

The Scots and the Quebecs... two peoples separated by at least 3 languages...

[RandyPNW]

As to America not being mentioned in the Bible, you could be right that we become part of the 4th beast.  But I am not of that opinion.  It's my opinion that God created America for a purpose.  That purpose being a place of refuge for the Jews and Christians in the world and an instrument to help establish and support the nation Israel back in the land.  As time draws near the end when God will begin His work in bringing  Israel back to Him, our purpose has ended.  Thus revival would no more be needed and judgement would result. 

I don't think God would create a nation for a strictly utilitarian purpose. He loves people, and gives them a home in a nation in which they can be protected and experience fulfillment in families. Yes, the US has served a useful purpose in protecting Jews and Christians. And yes, if we stop being useful to God, our usefulness is diminishing. I wouldn't bring the curtain down immediately, since only God knows when the time has come for overwhelming judgment. God is not quick to wrath.

As to God not being quick to judge a nation in the past, that is true.  But you must remember that as man progresses, or digresses, so does wickedness.   What may have taken hundreds of years in the past now takes but  a few years.   And, as I mentioned, we have sinned against a lot of light.  But, of course our judgement would coincide with God's purpose now turning back to Israel.

I have no idea how much God may wish to "speed things up." The barometer is the degree of wickedness that is emerging. Things sometimes look like they've gone too far and beyond repair. But the pendulum swings.

As to God not destroying the righteous with the wicked, that is a valid point.  But just as with Israel when God destroyed her with Babylon there were believers there.  But even they had been corrupted so that judgement was necessary.  To those who did remain true to God I believe God would take care of them in their captivity.

The innocent righteous don't always "survive" judgment from God against a nation. There are tragic casualties who are in the line of fire--victims of "friendly fire," if you will. A few righteous must remain in the worst of nations that once were Christian as a testimony to God's justice. Jeremiah is an example of this, though for a time he did survive.

I see most here reject the Rapture as Biblical. I disagree.  And it is here that I believe the Rapture plays a role.  Why?  Because it removes all the believing from the earth allowing God to turn lose His judgements upon the world.

But you're providing a reason for the Pretrib Rapture without even proving there will be one! And I would suggest that there is no such thing taught in the Scriptures at all. Thanks for your comments.

[RandyPNW]

It's always a bit odd this idea of America "moving away from" its Christian roots. Were expansionist policies Christian? Did the US only install Christian dictators? Was American's interference in Iran what lead to the current Christian treatment of women and minorities over there? What about the slave trade or the treatment of native Americans? How about the treatment of Japanese Americans? There's always experimentation on its citizens, or allowing its companies to experiment on African populations. And on, and on, and on.

If America were Christian at its roots, wouldn't it have started moving away a few hundred years ago? Or maybe we should simply dispel this myth of America the great Christian nation! Not from where I'm sitting.

I have long believed that the US started out as a "Christian country," but set up the State in a compromise between Deism and Conventional Christianity. And so, this "truce" was basically a "freedom of religion" pact, based on the plight of Christians escaping establishmentarian religion in places like England.

We've always been a mixed country, therefore.

[RandyPNW]

Look, you're just made because you are from Canuckistan and fled your homeland to live with the First Losers, I mean, the British!  Or Scotchists.

 

The Scots are just mad they couldn't expel the English as the Americans did. In fact, they're still going on talking about oppression and imposition. I think they should get together with Quebec and have a good cry over afternoon tea.

The Scots and the Quebecs... two peoples separated by at least 3 languages...

On a side note, it's interesting that in the Revelation God Himself supports the distinction of tribe, language, people, and nation.

Rev 5.9 you purchased for God persons from every tribe and language and people and nation.

These distinctions can either separate or unify based on the need for resources, defense, or comradery. Self-government that is actually *government by the laws of God, or a veiled theocracy, is the best and most successful. And diversity adds strength--not weakness, when unity is based on spirituality and morality.

As for the Scots, geographical determinism commends unity imposed by the greater tribal group of the islands, English government. And this government itself was originally imposed from without, by the Normans.

Though it was a marriage of convenience, the diverse nature of the two groups apparently required that this unity be imposed. It is a unity necessitated for the purpose of a unified defense of the terrain, as well as for internal peace.

The Scots, as a "tribe," can take pride in the fact that per population, they have produced more "great men" than any other tribal group in history. The Quebecans can take solace in the fact they have their own language and culture, but should recognize the need for Canadian unity from coast to coast. Any smaller, and I think the US would completely dominate that country!

[RabbiKnife]

Assets from Quebec:

1.  James Tiberias Kirk
2.  Crane, Denny Crane
3.  The Transformed Man (vinyl, 1968)

and Poutine.  Mustn't forget the poutine.

[Athanasius]

I mean, God was the one who did the dividing in the first place

[RandyPNW]

Assets from Quebec:

1.  James Tiberias Kirk
2.  Crane, Denny Crane
3.  The Transformed Man (vinyl, 1968)

and Poutine.  Mustn't forget the poutine.

In reality he was Jewish, but that's neither here nor there....

[RabbiKnife]

Careful.

You're talking "Race" or "ethnicity," and I'm talking "nation of origin."

Don't WhoopiGoldberg youself!

 

[Fenris]

I don't think God would create a nation for a strictly utilitarian purpose.

Why not?

[RandyPNW]

Careful.

You're talking "Race" or "ethnicity," and I'm talking "nation of origin."

Don't WhoopiGoldberg youself!

 

Seriously, don't compare me in any way with Whoopi Goldberg.
I heard what she said, and hated it the moment I heard it.