Chronology

[JoshuaStone7]

“The daily sacrifice will be stopped. Then, after 1,290 days from that time, a blasphemous object that brings destruction will be set up. (Daniel 12:11,” EXB, NCV)

“There will be 1,290 days from the time that the daily sacrifices are stopped, until someone sets up the “Horrible Thing” that causes destruction.” (Daniel 12:11, NEV)

“There will be one thousand two hundred ninety days from the time the daily sacrifice is stopped to the setting up of the desolating monstrosity.” (Daniel 12:11, CEB)

Joshua

[RandyPNW]

Lots of people seem to want to apply the 1290 days of Dan 12 to the Antichrist. I don't believe it does. I believe it represents the reign of Antiochus 4. We have two major figures in the book of Daniel, among others--Antiochus 4 and the Antichrist. We read of the Antichrist as the "Little Horn" in Dan 7. And we read about Antiochus 4 in both Dan 8 and Dan 11. Dan 12 ends the book of Daniel by discussing both of these major characters. The Antichrist reigns for 3.5 years. And Antiochus 4 reigns for 1290 days with respect to his persecution of the Jewish People. Just my opinion.

[JoshuaStone7]

​
Ending the time periods in Daniel 12 brings us to the 1335th day. The 1335th day ends forty-five days after the 1290th day.

"O the blessedness of him who is waiting earnestly, and doth come to the days, a thousand, three hundred, thirty and five." Dan 12:12

Joshua

(I can't figure out why my image is coming in so large. I've tried several image-sharing sites and links.) Please advise

[Athanasius]

​
Ending the time periods in Daniel 12 brings us to the 1335th day. The 1335th day ends forty-five days after the 1290th day.

"O the blessedness of him who is waiting earnestly, and doth come to the days, a thousand, three hundred, thirty and five." Dan 12:12

Joshua

(I can't figure out why my image is coming in so large. I've tried several image-sharing sites and links.) Please advise

Fixed that for you. An image width can be defined with a 'width=$width' parameter when adding an image. For 600px you'd open the image tag with:

[img width=600]

By the way, I hope John's wife didn't quit her job.

[JoshuaStone7]

By the way, I hope John's wife didn't quit her job.

Greetings friend, thank you...

John's wife?



The 1260 days begin the time frame in Daniel 12.

"And I heard the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the stream; he raised his right hand and his left hand toward heaven and swore by him who lives forever that it would be for a time, times, and half a time, and that when the shattering of the power of the holy people comes to an end all these things would be finished. " Dan 12:7

"And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, in which she is to be nourished for 1,260 days." Rev 12:6

"But the woman was given the two wings of the great eagle so that she might fly from the serpent into the wilderness, to the place where she is to be nourished for a time, and times, and half a time." Rev 12:14

Joshua

[Athanasius]

Greetings friend, thank you...
John's wife?

I found him on a 2017 thread on e-jw where you discuss much the same ideas as you're beginning to present here. Early in the thread, a poster mentioned that their wife was excited, knowing that she could quit her job between September 2018 and May 2021 on the basis, or perhaps misunderstanding, of things you had previously written.

Personally, I'm not too interested in end times prophecy. My eschatology is much more immediate. Maybe that'll change when I'm older.

But this does leave me wondering about John and his wife. I see Robert is still going on about things too, despite his apparent lack of understanding of prophecy. Something else, those people who can understand prophecy. I just don't think I understand the draw.

Anyway, I became interested after seeing your image source, given I just temporarily banned a different JW poster for being quite imbecilic in his approach. You've started off much more reasonably, and by all accounts, are more reasonable. It's interesting though, that two JWs show up around the same time, and the second after the first is banned. From the doctrine of the trinity to prophecy. From obstinate to educated (no less than thirty years of research into scholastic theology!). Imagine that? What a funny little coincidence. You don't just read the NWT though, so maybe you aren't quite JW?

Well, hopefully, the discussion here is as amicable as the discussions there. Interesting way to start a thread.

[JoshuaStone7]

I found him on a 2017 thread on e-jw where you discuss much the same ideas as you're beginning to present here. Early in the thread, a poster mentioned that their wife was excited, knowing that she could quit her job between September 2018 and May 2021 on the basis, or perhaps misunderstanding, of things you had previously written.

Greetings...

John is a member of my forum, and I haven't seen him in a while, unfortunately.

Yes, misunderstandings are always an issue through the written word, as I'm sure you are well aware. I've learned a lot about communication and discussing scripture from running a forum for a decade. At one time, I was much more insistent others believe as I do. And along the way, God helped me to find my way through that imperfection by the gift of a fellow Christian. Not that our imperfections are ever completely gone; however, I like to think I am more mature nowadays.

With that said, I have never said what I presented is fact, or that what I present will occur, but only that I wish to share what has been given me, where I am now in the text.

But this does leave me wondering about John and his wife. I see Robert is still going on about things too, despite his apparent lack of understanding of prophecy.

Were you familiar with John before just reading the post on my forum?

As to Robert: I really don't know what to say...lol Let's just say it sounds like you and I have traveled similar paths and know some of the same players.

Anyway, I became interested after seeing your image source, given I just temporarily banned a different JW poster for being quite imbecilic in his approach. You've started off much more reasonably, and by all accounts, are more reasonable. It's interesting though, that two JWs show up around the same time, and the second after the first is banned.

That is interesting...

I was baptized as one of JW's in 2000 but have come a long way over the years. In my opinion, no one has perfect knowledge of scripture on earth, and that includes any denomination we could name. I believe JW's have just as many doctrinal errors as any other denomination.

I've come to understand that there is only one salvational subject, and that is faith through Christ Jesus. Eschatology, Trinitarian vs Unitarian, history, what have you, are all open to empirical discussion and not a matter of salvation. In my opinion, of course.

Things were getting quiet over on my forum, so recently, I started branching out. I joined ChristianChat as well and started posting there a few days ago.

As to another JW member you banned recently, it would appear as a coincidence, other than perhaps our Father offering another brother in myself as an example of one who spent many years within the Watchtower.

From the doctrine of the trinity to prophecy. From obstinate to educated (no less than thirty years of research into scholastic theology!). Imagine that? What a funny little coincidence. You don't just read the NWT though, so maybe you aren't quite JW?

Well, hopefully, the discussion here is as amicable as the discussions there. Interesting way to start a thread.

I no longer want to convince anyone of anything in scripture. I have a good friend named Timothy, who I will dive in-depth with to assist in sharing details, but overall I want to share what I've been given, and that's why I'm here. I don't ask anyone to believe me; I just want to share scripture...

But of course, if there are any questions about what I share, I hope anyone speaks up. I can simply just explain how I have come to understand the text as I have.

All love...

Joshua

[RandyPNW]

Personally, I'm not too interested in end times prophecy. My eschatology is much more immediate. Maybe that'll change when I'm older.

But this does leave me wondering about John and his wife. I see Robert is still going on about things too, despite his apparent lack of understanding of prophecy. Something else, those people who can understand prophecy. I just don't think I understand the draw.

I'm just going to comment on the prophecy part. I agree--prophecy has a "draw" that is not native to biblical sentiment. My own interest in prophecy is to void this "sensationalism" associated with prophecy, which even the Bible warns about.

We're not to be overly concerned with "times and seasons," which God alone controls. Our focus is to be on the now--not that we aren't supposed to recognize our surroundings by being informed about prophecy, but that our ministry is "today," and not in some future guess-game.

That being said, I think there is a natural enthusiasm over prophecy that is legitimate, which involves our excitement that God controls the future and is going to bring about lasting peace and everlasting bliss. How can you not get excited as you see the day approaching?

I'm sure you feel the same enthusiasm, but are right about the absurdity of formulating all of these contradictory timing schemes, prophecy calendars, false predictions, etc. But some of this is necessary just to get familiar with all of the prophecies, and in order to line them up in a true biblical order.

And the biblical order is much more simpler than people make it out to be. They are often dissatisfied with anything less than their complicated schemes, which of course they preside over as our prime navigator through God's word.

Thanks for stating your thought on this.

[JoshuaStone7]

We're not to be overly concerned with "times and seasons," which God alone controls. Our focus is to be on the now--not that we aren't supposed to recognize our surroundings by being informed about prophecy, but that our ministry is "today," and not in some future guess-game.

Greetings Randy, thank you for your post...

I've always thought it interesting that Jesus corrected His disciples when they asked about when the kingdom would be restored to Israel; however, He condemned the people for not recognizing the times in which they lived.

"Then they gathered around him and asked him, “Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?” He said to them: “It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority." Acts 1:6,7

"Hypocrites! You know how to interpret the appearance of the earth and the sky. How is it that you don’t know how to interpret this present time?" Luk 12:56

All love...

Joshua

[RandyPNW]

We're not to be overly concerned with "times and seasons," which God alone controls. Our focus is to be on the now--not that we aren't supposed to recognize our surroundings by being informed about prophecy, but that our ministry is "today," and not in some future guess-game.

Greetings Randy, thank you for your post...

I've always thought it interesting that Jesus corrected His disciples when they asked about when the kingdom would be restored to Israel; however, He condemned the people for not recognizing the times in which they lived.

"Then they gathered around him and asked him, “Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?” He said to them: “It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority." Acts 1:6,7

"Hypocrites! You know how to interpret the appearance of the earth and the sky. How is it that you don’t know how to interpret this present time?" Luk 12:56

All love...

Joshua

Yes, exactly that! We do know our surroundings from God's pov because we've been sort of given the eyes of Jesus, to know by revelation what God is doing around us and how we need to respond to it.

Correcting the time of Christ's Return was explained by Jesus to be of the same nature as being prepared today against judgment. God's judgment is always threatening, and we don't have to wait until Christ comes to be ready for that.

[JoshuaStone7]

Yes, exactly that! We do know our surroundings from God's pov because we've been sort of given the eyes of Jesus, to know by revelation what God is doing around us and how we need to respond to it.

Correcting the time of Christ's Return was explained by Jesus to be of the same nature as being prepared today against judgment. God's judgment is always threatening, and we don't have to wait until Christ comes to be ready for that.

Greetings friend...

Tell me: Why do you connect studying eschatology with being prepared now? Curious; can one be prepared now and still yet come to an accurate understanding of His second coming? I would assume you believe that is the case; however, your wording makes it seem like the two are incompatible.

Also, do you mind offering your insights on Amos 3:7? Thanks, brother!

"For the Lord GOD does nothing without revealing his secret to his servants the prophets." Amos 3:7

Regardless if you believe the two witnesses are individuals or a group, usually Christians believe they will have foreknowledge of future events upon the world, hence their preaching work. So could Jesus' words about His restoring the kingdom be simply directed to His disciples and not us? He was speaking to them after all, and He wasn't going to restore the kingdom at that time. Instead, it was their responsibility to understand the time in which they lived, those things fulfilled in the Messiah, right? So by deduction, it would be our responsibility to understand prophecy fulfilled in our day, right?

At least this is the way I currently understand our Lord's words...

All love.

Joshua
 

[JoshuaStone7]

Yes, exactly that!

As a follow-up:

After posting the above, I re-read your reply. Unless I'm mistaken, you believe Jesus' words in Luke to be a general statement about their preparedness as to faith in the time in which they may live. Correct me if I am wrong...

"Hypocrites! You know how to interpret the appearance of the earth and the sky. How is it that you don’t know how to interpret this present time?" Luk 12:56

Have you considered Jesus was instead speaking about the people understanding the future? This is the way I understand our Lord's words because of the parable He used.

"He said to the crowd: “When you see a cloud rising in the west, immediately you say, ‘It’s going to rain,’ and it does. And when the south wind blows, you say, ‘It’s going to be hot,’ and it is. Hypocrites! You know how to interpret the appearance of the earth and the sky. How is it that you don’t know how to interpret this present time?" Luke 12:54-56

So He's speaking about the people being able to understand events to come, right? Isn't He saying they should recegnise prophecy being fulfilled in Him?

All love...

Joshua

[Athanasius]

How can you not get excited as you see the day approaching?

When I think about the age to come, the new earth, glorified bodies, being once more in full, proper relationship with God and with others, and whatever else I missed, I think... That's mind-blowing. It's terrific. It's so foreign as to be terrifying. I've met Jesus, and the thought of it all is still uncomfortable.

I also think, am I running the race? 1 Corinthians 9.
I also think, am I fighting the fight? 2 Timothy 4.
I also think, am I working out my salvation with fear and trembling? Philippians 2.

I also think, am I living a life worthy of Christ? Do I love God with my all, and my neighbours as myself? Do I act out of faith? Do I trust that God loves me? Do I have all the right beliefs?

I think that God has it all worked out so I'm more concerned with making it to the end. We're all concerned with that, don't get me wrong. But I don't think I'd be wrong in suggesting that it's something I'm hyper-aware of because of the particular cross I have to bear, as it were (trust me when I say that plenty of Christians would disqualify from the race if it were up to them). I think, in a way, I see eschatology truly as the study of last things. For me, it's something I engage with only after I were in a more comfortable place in the other areas of my life.

I don't think I'll ever be in that circumstance with the struggles I contend with. So, I suppose my eschatological concern is more focused on the historicity of my acts today and their unknown consequences into the future. It's not truly eschatology in the sense of final things, which is, of course, important.

I've always thought it interesting that Jesus corrected His disciples when they asked about when the kingdom would be restored to Israel; however, He condemned the people for not recognizing the times in which they lived.

"Then they gathered around him and asked him, “Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?” He said to them: “It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority." Acts 1:6,7

"Hypocrites! You know how to interpret the appearance of the earth and the sky. How is it that you don’t know how to interpret this present time?" Luk 12:56

All love...

Joshua

I think the accusation of hypocrisy is important. It's not that these people didn't know how to interpret the present time, or that they knew but were blind because they got it wrong, but that they denied what clearly they ought to have accepted. They were hypocrites because they accepted the appearance of the earth and the sky, but didn't accept the appearance of Jesus: He heals the sick, raises the dead, forgives sins, makes divine claims.

Don't get me wrong when I say I'm not too bothered with end times stuff. It's in Scripture so obviously it's important, but it's not where my focus lies for the time being.

God's judgment is always threatening, and we don't have to wait until Christ comes to be ready for that.

Well, we don't need eschatology at all to be ready for that -- just be ready. Eschatology is important, of course, and we shouldn't do away with it.

[RandyPNW]

God's judgment is always threatening, and we don't have to wait until Christ comes to be ready for that.

Well, we don't need eschatology at all to be ready for that -- just be ready. Eschatology is important, of course, and we shouldn't do away with it.

I define eschatology as inclusive of our hope. Without hope we don't drive towards any particular goal. In that sense I do think eschatology is important. It fills in details about our goal so that we pursue it in the proper way.

The kind of eschatology I see as important actually began in the distant past. The way Daniel painted the eschatological future he began with the 4th Beast of Dan 7, which I believe was the ancient Roman Empire.

And so, in that sense eschatology began with the ancient Roman Empire and has determined that history would become something both Christianized and apostate over time. This is what keeps us looking at life realistically, without being over idealistic with respect to our religion. And if we stay realistic, we won't give up too easily, nor will we fall into fear too quickly.

[journeyman]

“The daily sacrifice will be stopped. Then, after 1,290 days from that time, a blasphemous object that brings destruction will be set up. (Daniel 12:11,” EXB, NCV)

“There will be 1,290 days from the time that the daily sacrifices are stopped, until someone sets up the “Horrible Thing” that causes destruction.” (Daniel 12:11, NEV)

“There will be one thousand two hundred ninety days from the time the daily sacrifice is stopped to the setting up of the desolating monstrosity.” (Daniel 12:11, CEB)

Joshua

I believe 1290 days was our Lords ministry when he walked on earth,

for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.Mt.23:13

We go in through Jesus,

Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep... I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture. Jn.10:7,9

He's the daily sacrifice, which the accepted religious authority stopped for themselves and others who followed their edicts.

So He's speaking about the people being able to understand events to come, right? Isn't He saying they should recegnise prophecy being fulfilled in Him?

Yes, it is fulfilled in him and so the events to come is about how Jesus then as well as now in Spirit changes the perception of every believer.