John 1:1- Jesus is GOD??? Let JESUS answer this- FROM John!

[RabbiKnife]

He can't tweak that.... It was a handout at Sabbath School.

[Athanasius]

He can't tweak that.... It was a handout at Sabbath School.

Well you know Patrick, he could remove the clover image Patrick! Yeah Patrick, that's modalism Patrick!

[RabbiKnife]

He can't tweak that.... It was a handout at Sabbath School.

Well you know Patrick, he could remove the clover image Patrick! Yeah Patrick, that's modalism Patrick!

Absolutely.  And by the way, Patrick, that snake herding business is still depressed for some reason, Patrick!  you wouldn't be knowing anything about that now, would you Patrick?

Almost as good as C3PO translating...

[Kingfisher]

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahaha!

I had lengthy discussions with a JW coworker 15 or so years ago. Although we disagreed with most everything, there was always mutual respect. We both left the discussions with a better understanding of each other.

So far many of your interactions with other members on this board come off as childish. Like the condescending typed laugh that I quoted. Other instances of name calling...like churchoid would've made even my JW coworker cringe.

I hope this isn't something that the WT is now teaching for evangelism purposes.   

[theMadJW]

It isn't; my own observation.

[journeyman]

What? The resurrection WAS the subject, but that is unrelated to it.

Actually, it's the focus of Paul's teaching,

Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? 1Cor.15:29

That verse follows the one in question. And the one before it says,

For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. 1Cor.15:27

Paul is quoting the Psa.8:6 which has a dual meaning, where both Jesus and Adam were made lower than the Angels. What is manifest is that Christ is superior to Adam.

One 'Almighty' God DID NOT subject himself to ANOTHER Almighty' God.

Jesus exemplifies submission to his Father during his ministry. At the resurrection, all will see him as the one who redeemed us to himself by himself.

[theMadJW]

That is OBVIOUS.
What bearing does that have on Jesus serving God?
He is One God serving ANOTHER?

[Athanasius]

That is OBVIOUS.
What bearing does that have on Jesus serving God?
He is One God serving ANOTHER?

Finally, some honesty.

Where are you getting this 'other' god from? Trinitarian doctrine doesn't posit that there are multiple gods, so it's strange to me that you've decided to argue down this route rather than attempt to demonstrate that Jesus is in fact not divine. Well, to be fair that's what you've been trying but it hasn't gone very well because you've avoided any attempt to progress your points.

And as has been already said, Jesus qua the son of God (or, God the Son) is a hypostasis of the divine substance (homo- not homoi-). Jesus qua the Son of Man exists in proper relation to God (the Father) by worshipping Him as any human ought to worship God.

You know that word you brought up, perichoresis? It's relevant here.

[theMadJW]

Trinitarian speaking churchese, where you can apply any definition you wish to any word!

[Athanasius]

Trinitarian speaking churchese, where you can apply any definition you wish to any word!

Listen, in a world where men can be women anything is possible.

But we haven't forgotten that you were the one to bring up those words first. You're free to correct the definition(s) as well if you think they're wrong.

Unless you don't like the word 'qua', which would just be criminal.

[theMadJW]

Hmmm! "God-the- >>>> Son <<<<~  How is God his own Son?
(Smile> I know what comes next- unless he's figured out a counter to this!)

[Athanasius]

Hmmm! "God-the- >>>> Son <<<<~  How is God his own Son?
(Smile> I know what comes next- unless he's figured out a counter to this!)

Spoilers, Doctor.

I think your question rests on a confusion of identity. Since the doctrine posts that the Godhead is triune, and that there exist, three persons of the Godhead (the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit), it's a misunderstanding of the doctrine to ask "how is God his own Son" since that's a bit like asking, "How is God God"? Well, as you might have anticipated, we would distinguish between the persons of the Godhead: the doctrine of the Trinity does not claim that God the Father is God the Son, or rather, that God the Father is his own Son. Or that any of the other persons are their own Son, etc. You're asking the question as if Trinitarian doctrine claims that God is a single substance, a single hypostasis, a single person. You're possibly asking in the hope of pointing out that we're then not talking about God as a single being, but we are, while being aware of the triune nature of that being.

Anyway, this rests, of course, on the teaching that the hypostases of the triune Godhead exist necessarily and eternally in relation to each other. One substance, three persons, one God. Thus, what we've had revealed to us is the particular relation between the Son and the Father in familial language: that of father and son.

Maybe you're also confused over what "the Father and I are one" means.

Did I say what you were hoping I'd say? I hope so, because I'm curious what comes next!

[theMadJW]

Thanks for answering.
You realize that as church DOGMA, don't you?

[Athanasius]

Thanks for answering.
You realize that as church DOGMA, don't you?

No kidding?

Closing.