Feasts and the 2nd Coming

[Truth7t7]

Fenris, do you hold the Rabbinical Talmud as valuable to your faith and understanding of God?

The understanding of God through His commandments, yes.

So you believe the Rabbinical Talmud is useful, and you "Endorse" its usage?

[Fenris]

So you believe the Rabbinical Talmud is useful, and you "Endorse" its usage?

I believe the knowledge contained therein is necessary to lead a proper Jewish life. It doesn't really have any application for you though. Although I understand that there are schools in South Korea that study it for intellectual purposes.

[Truth7t7]

So you believe the Rabbinical Talmud is useful, and you "Endorse" its usage?

I believe the knowledge contained therein is necessary to lead a proper Jewish life. It doesn't really have any application for you though. Although I understand that there are schools in South Korea that study it for intellectual purposes.

What are your feelings on the Talmuds teachings regarding Goyim/Gentiles?

[RandyPNW]

We cannot take it literally because the Law, for us, is no longer in place, and is no longer needed.

Then you have a problem, because God clearly says otherwise in this instance.

Who knows what "keeping the Feast of Tabernacles" would mean in the Messianic era? For one thing, Gentiles didn't keep any of the Jewish feasts! So we know that this could be symbolic of something--we just don't know what!

Or maybe it means exactly what it says. The nations will come to Jerusalem to celebrate this festival.

The big question for me would be: do the Scriptures normally use technical celebrations in a symbolic way?

Maybe you should read what the text says and not what you wish it said?

We are at loggerheads. My belief is that biblical language, particularly in the Prophets, is used and applied flexibly. This is especially so when speaking of an era when the entire environment has changed, rendering the Law of no effect.

It's value, then, for me is symbolic. And that's how I think it was used. In my view, I don't have the problem. Rather, the problem is yours if you think the Sin Problem has not yet been dealt with. As the letter of Hebrews indicates, those who are required repeat rituals of redemption and purification aren't really redeemed or purified in the "final" sense.

As Christians we feel that Messiah has already come and accomplished this for anybody who cares to appropriate his life for their own. That is, they choose to live their life from henceforth for him alone.

[Fenris]

What are your feelings on the Talmuds teachings regarding Goyim/Gentiles?

Gentiles are generally not mentioned. It's 63 volumes totaling over 5,000 pages almost entirely about the finer points Jewish law and the logical tools used to determine them. Is there something specifically that you wanted to talk about? Maybe start another topic about it? 

[Fenris]

We are at loggerheads. My belief is that biblical language, particularly in the Prophets, is used and applied flexibly.

And yet the language must mean something. Why specifically the holiday of Tabernacles? It could have used any other holiday, or even no holiday at all. You don't just get to hand wave this way.

[RandyPNW]

We are at loggerheads. My belief is that biblical language, particularly in the Prophets, is used and applied flexibly.

And yet the language must mean something. Why specifically the holiday of Tabernacles? It could have used any other holiday, or even no holiday at all. You don't just get to hand wave this way.

[handwave] yes, I do. I don't honestly have an answer to this...yet. I suppose I haven't given it enough thought. Your concern has not been my concern. But yes, I'm curious: Why this particular celebration? I'm thinking, but don't wait till the water boils.....

Well, okay, I'll just suggest this...

Zech 14.16 Then the survivors from all the nations that have attacked Jerusalem will go up year after year to worship the King, the Lord Almighty, and to celebrate the Festival of Tabernacles. 17 If any of the peoples of the earth do not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord Almighty, they will have no rain. 18 If the Egyptian people do not go up and take part, they will have no rain. The Lord will bring on them the plague he inflicts on the nations that do not go up to celebrate the Festival of Tabernacles. 19 This will be the punishment of Egypt and the punishment of all the nations that do not go up to celebrate the Festival of Tabernacles.

I believe God used the celebration of the Feast of Tabernacles as an explicit recognition of Israel's right to inhabit and to inherit the land of Canaan, the land of Palestine, or whatever you want to call it. The Arabs and the Muslims, along with the United Nations, have all had trouble recognizing Israel's right to exist in their traditional land of covenant. And God is going to make all of these acknowledge that He has given them this land today as an everlasting covenant. He has forgiven their sin.

Well, this is projected into the future because I believe it will happen following the Coming of Messiah. It will be the Kingdom age, in which Israel is able to live at peace with their neighbors, and acknowledged in the world as a people of God.

Why Tabernacles?--it is because this was the celebration of their voyage through the Wilderness, following their exodus from Egypt. And though Israel turned back to idolatry, as in the days of Ahab and Jezebel, the nations who are rebellious like Ahab was will experience a great drought, unless they acknowledge God's prophetic guarantee of Israel's residence in the land of Israel.

Just like Egypt had to let Israel go, due to plagues put on them by the Lord, so also the nations will suffer plagues unless they acknowledge Israel's place in the Middle East. The nations will have to acknowledge that God has brought the Jews through a great Diaspora to give them back their land, just as Israel was made secure in the Wilderness until they came back to the land of their patriarchs.

[Truth7t7]

What are your feelings on the Talmuds teachings regarding Goyim/Gentiles?

Gentiles are generally not mentioned. It's 63 volumes totaling over 5,000 pages almost entirely about the finer points Jewish law and the logical tools used to determine them. Is there something specifically that you wanted to talk about? Maybe start another topic about it?

The Rabbinical Talumd Is "FILTH"!

Goyim = Gentile or Non Jew

Midrasch Talpioth, p. 225-L Jehovah created the goyim in human form so that the Jew would not have to be served by beasts. The goyim is consequently an animal in human form, and condemned to serve the Jew day and night.

Sanhedrin 57a . When a Jew murders a goyim, there will be no death penalty. What a Jew steals from a goyim he may keep.

Baba Mezia 114b The goyim are not humans. They are beasts.

Baba Kamma 113a. Jews may use lies to circumvent a goyim.

Abodah Zarah 36b. Goyim girls are in a state of niddah (filth) from birth.

Menahoth 43b-44a. A Jewish man is obligated to say the following prayer every day: “Thank you God for not making me a goyim, a woman or a slave.”

Sanhedrin 57a . A Jew need not pay a goyim the wages owed him for work.

Baba Mezia 24a . If a Jew finds an object lost by a goyim it does not have to be returned.

Abodah Zarah 22a-22b . Goyim prefer sex with cows.

Libbre David 37  To communicate anything to a goyim about our religious relations would be equal to the killing of all Jews, for if the goyim knew what we teach about them, they would kill us openly.

Schulchan Aruch, Choszen Hamiszpat 156 When a Jew has a goyim in his clutches, another Jew may go to the same goyim, lend him money and in turn deceive him, so that the goyim shall be ruined. For the property of a goyim, according to our law, belongs to no one, and the first Jew that passes has full right to seize it.

Hadarine, 20, B; Schulchan Aruch, Choszen Hamiszpat 348 A Jew may do to a non-Jewess what he can do. He may treat her as he treats a piece of meat.

[RandyPNW]

I personally feel we should be able to ask questions about these quotations, without resorting to hostile comments. After all, those who believe in such things should be allowed a response before being accused. We may not be understanding the full context, for example.

Christian Scriptures acknowledge Jewish Scriptures, as well, which also condemn pagan Gentiles. Jesus didn't hesitate to refer to them as "dogs" on one occasion. Christians believe in the genocide of 7 Canaanite nations in the land of future Israel. Christians believe that God eradicated most of the world in the time of Noah, and erased the towns of Sodom and Gomorrah. We believe God engineered the destruction of Israel in the time of the Assyrians and the Babylonians, and that Israel was judged by God in the time of the ancient Romans.

Before allowing our non-Christian detractors to hurl insults at our Scriptures they should allow us to explain some of this as the prerogative of God. We need an opportunity to discuss the material without immediately going into battle-mode.

Furthermore, Jews have had hate thrown at them for 2 millennia, and would you stir up such anti-Semitism against them again? Again, asking questions to me is legitimate. Casting hateful rhetoric against the beliefs of some Jews should be refrained from, if an answer is even really wanted. Right?

[Truth7t7]

Hostile Comments, Jews have been hated for millennia, stirring antisemetism, casting hateful rhetoric?

All accusations in false claims, my Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ was a Jew, God manifest in the flesh

A mystery, who is the focus of your attention, the Christian presenting Gods "Truth"

Perhaps this is a prime example why only a handful of posters are participating in this forum, will the spirit of Antichrist prevail?

The Rabbinical Talmud is "Filth" the truth before your eyes

Jesus Is The Lord!

Mark 6:11KJV
11 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

Quotes Rabbinical Talmud:

Goyim = Gentile or Non Jew

Midrasch Talpioth, p. 225-L Jehovah created the goyim in human form so that the Jew would not have to be served by beasts. The goyim is consequently an animal in human form, and condemned to serve the Jew day and night.

Sanhedrin 57a . When a Jew murders a goyim, there will be no death penalty. What a Jew steals from a goyim he may keep.

Baba Mezia 114b The goyim are not humans. They are beasts.

Baba Kamma 113a. Jews may use lies to circumvent a goyim.

Abodah Zarah 36b. Goyim girls are in a state of niddah (filth) from birth.

Menahoth 43b-44a. A Jewish man is obligated to say the following prayer every day: “Thank you God for not making me a goyim, a woman or a slave.”

Sanhedrin 57a . A Jew need not pay a goyim the wages owed him for work.

Baba Mezia 24a . If a Jew finds an object lost by a goyim it does not have to be returned.

Abodah Zarah 22a-22b . Goyim prefer sex with cows.

Libbre David 37  To communicate anything to a goyim about our religious relations would be equal to the killing of all Jews, for if the goyim knew what we teach about them, they would kill us openly.

Schulchan Aruch, Choszen Hamiszpat 156 When a Jew has a goyim in his clutches, another Jew may go to the same goyim, lend him money and in turn deceive him, so that the goyim shall be ruined. For the property of a goyim, according to our law, belongs to no one, and the first Jew that passes has full right to seize it.

Hadarine, 20, B; Schulchan Aruch, Choszen Hamiszpat 348 A Jew may do to a non-Jewess what he can do. He may treat her as he treats a piece of meat.

[Athanasius]

I've given Truth7t7 some time to enjoy his ham (24 hours). The 'filth' language above, coupled with his comment concerning ham (https://bibleforums.us/index.php?topic=195.msg3250#msg3250) isn't acceptable.

I'll extend that ban to forever if it happens again.

[RabbiKnife]

Sorry, Fenris.

Apparently stupid and cruel have no limits.

[Fenris]

The Rabbinical Talumd Is "FILTH"!

Yup. I figured something like this was coming. Well, this is a lazy cut and paste from I have no idea where. The Talmud doesn't say these things. Some of the sources that you quote aren't even the Talmud. And they still don't say these things. Stop believing everything that you read on the internet. Really.

[Fenris]

Sorry, Fenris.

Apparently stupid and cruel have no limits.

LOL. Why are you apologizing? You didn't make those comments. We're old friends, you and I.

[Fenris]

Why Tabernacles?--it is because this was the celebration of their voyage through the Wilderness, following their exodus from Egypt.

I mean, this doesn't make a strong case. The holiday they celebrated in the wilderness is a reminder of the claim they have on the land of Israel?

There's a better way to see it, as illuminated to be from Rabbi Lord Jonathan Sacks (yes, he was knighted by the queen of England!)

He points out that there are two major biblical holiday arcs on the Jewish calendar.

The first is Passover- Shavuot- Sukkot

They take place in the spring, 49 days later for the first fruits, and then again at the harvest season.

Passover for the Exodus (obviously), Shavuot for the receiving of the ten commandments, and Sukkot for the 40 years in the desert.

There are Jewish specific holidays. The connect to specific events in Jewish history.

That's arc one.

The second arc is Rosh Hashanah- Yom Kippur- Sukkot

They all take place in the same month and are separated by a mere 14 days.

Rosh Hashanah is the beginning of the year, when God is crowned as king of mankind. Yom Kippur is the day of atonement, when God judges of all mankind. And Sukkot is when the ruling is handed out for all of mankind. Also, the sum of all the bulls sacrificed for the entire holiday totals 70, which is the number of nations in the world according to the bible (Genesis 10).

These are not Jewish specific holidays. While Jews celebrate them, they actually pertain to all of mankind.

Sukkot is the one holiday in both arcs, the Jewish specific holidays and the holidays that pertain to all of humanity. This makes it special, and that is perhaps why it will be celebrated by all of us in the messianic era- when all of us, Jew and gentile, are united under God's rule.