Have we preexisted?

[Andyrollon]

Did our soul exist before we become humans?

I have never really thought that this could be a biblical reality before. But one day when I thought about my favorite parable in the bible, I asked myself this question. The parable of the prodigal son. I have always associated me with the prodigal son, and always thought of the father in the story as God or Jesus. But wait a second, if I am the prodigal son, I once were with my father. Let us look at the story closely. I will give my interpretation and show similarities in other bible verses.

Luke 15: 11-32

The Parable of the Lost Son
11 Then He said: “A certain man had two sons. 12 And the younger of them said to his father, ‘Father, give me the portion of goods that falls to me.’ So he divided to them his livelihood. 13 And not many days after, the younger son gathered all together, journeyed to a far country, and there wasted his possessions with [a]prodigal living.

There is a son who want his possession, the heritage of his father. It seems to me that he wants his father dead, or that he is not content with his situation. He maybe thinks that there is better thing outside of his father’s land. The father gives him what he asks for. If the father is Jesus/God, and I am the prodigal son, it means that I have left the land of God/Jesus. The land of God/Jesus must be paradise.

Then he leaves for a country far away/ or a foreign land. What can a land far away from paradise be? My simple answer to this is the earth. In this land he lives a wild life. If we compare Gods paradise with the earth, the earth is a wild life country. The earth is definitely a place where sin take place. The earth is indeed a place where people are gathered that are rebellious of God. This Son definitely rebelled against his father. But if this should really make sense with the rest of the bible, we must be rebellious of God from birth. Do that make sense with the bible? Yes indeed, we are born sinners, it makes perfectly sense.

The bible says:
Psalm 51:5:
"Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me."

And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest. (NASB) Ephesians 2:1-3

Let us notice that it says “by nature” we were “children of wrath”, not that it was our belonging. It also says that we were “dead”, must mean spiritual dead because a dead physical body cant move around. And we were shapen in inequity, and in sin were we conceived. In other words we were born in sin, spiritual dead.

How can someone random, deserve being born spiritual dead? Why shall we first be born dead, for so being born spiritual for the first time? Jesus did not say “you must be born spiritual for the first time”. He says “you must be born again”.

John 3:3
Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

Without saying that I am an expert I have been told that “born again”, the phrase literally means “rebirth”. We know that Jesus meant to be spiritually born again. It can mean being born spiritualty for the second time. But we have a problem, we were born spiritual dead? When was the first time we were born spiritually? Well one simple answer is before we were born in the kingdom of God, before we rebelled against God. If the first birth birth Jesus refer to is the human birth, and the second one the spiritual, the spiritual one cannot be associated to “again”, because of that kind of birth has never been done. The same if we think of the word “rebirth”, it must be something of the same kind. Spiritual birth and physical birth is two very different things.

Okey, let us continue with the prodigal parable.   

 14 But when he had spent all, there arose a severe famine in that land, and he began to be in want. 15 Then he went and joined himself to a citizen of that country, and he sent him into his fields to feed swine. 16 And he would gladly have filled his stomach with the pods that the swine ate, and no one gave him anything.
17 “But when he came to himself, he said, ‘How many of my father’s hired servants have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger! 18 I will arise and go to my father, and will say to him, “Father, I have sinned against heaven and before you, 19 and I am no longer worthy to be called your son. Make me like one of your hired servants.” ’

So in the foreign land, his situation get worse and worse. Then he remembered his father. It seems not that he would think of his father when things were not that bad. When he was on his worse place in life, he remembered his father. When we think of people in the world that get saved, or are seeking God, it is normally when things goes bad. People may be too proud of seeking God if they are not in a need. Why do the Gospel make sense for some people? It is one story out of extremely many. Can it be that we remember Jesus and the truth deeply down in ourself? The one time when we were in paradise. When we are down, and the gospel are spoken, our “soul” or something in us shows us what we have forgotten. We decide to take the first step towards God/Jesus, because we somehow knows it is true.

Well Jesus says it quiet clear:
John 10: Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.
3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.
4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.
6 This parable spake Jesus unto them: but they understood not what things they were which he spake unto them.
7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.

Jesus repeatedly says: ”my sheep hear my voice”. If we are Jesus sheep, we know his voice even though we have gone astray.

We go on with the story:

20 “And he arose and came to his father. But when he was still a great way off, his father saw him and had compassion, and ran and fell on his neck and kissed him. 21 And the son said to him, ‘Father, I have sinned against heaven and in your sight, and am no longer worthy to be called your son.’

Let us notice the detail here. The son is a great way of the land of the father. It means the father goes away from his land, running, kissing the rebellious son. The son is not walking into the land alone. He is led by his father on the last part of the journey on his way home. He admit he have sinned against heaven by doing what he has done. Seems to me that this story has to do with heaven, and he is not worthy being called a son. Why? Because he had sinned. This father seems very much like Jesus/God to me. But this son is by heritage a Son, and the father forgive him. He is very happy for his return.
This part of the story has so many references with other parables Jesus are explaining as well as his sayings. The first bible verse I will make a reference to is this one:

The Parable of the Lost Sheep
Mathew 18:10
10 “Take heed that you do not despise one of these little ones, for I say to you that in heaven their angels always see the face of My Father who is in heaven. 11 For[c] the Son of Man has come to save that which was lost.
12 “What do you think? If a man has a hundred sheep, and one of them goes astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine and go to the mountains to seek the one that is straying? 13 And if he should find it, assuredly, I say to you, he rejoices more over that sheep than over the ninety-nine that did not go astray. 14 Even so it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish.

First I must appoint that our Jesus wants to save what was lost, and make references to a sheep that goes astray. In order to be lost you must once have been on the right place. Like the sheep who goes astray, we know it was on the right place at the first time. Then it went astray, and then it was found. What is the sheep in the bible a symbol of ? Well this is quiet obvious for all scholar that it is gods people, those who follow jesus is his sheep.

Matthew 10:16 ESV / 132 helpful votes
“Behold, I am sending you out as sheep in the midst of wolves, so be wise as serpents and innocent as doves.

John 10:27 ESV / 44 helpful votes
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.

Both of this is quotes from Jesus. And you can find plenty of verses that indicate and tells us that Jesus is our shepherd and we are his sheep. 
The parable of the lost sheep is very similar to the parable of the prodigal son, because the Father in the prodigal son and the shepherd in the lost sheep both run after the one that was lost. Which means the father ran after his son, while the shepherd run after his sheep. Both rejoice and celebrate when they find their lost sheep or son.

22 “But the father said to his servants, [c]‘Bring out the best robe and put it on him, and put a ring on his hand and sandals on his feet. 23 And bring the fatted calf here and kill it, and let us eat and be merry; 24 for this my son was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’ And they began to be merry.

This is getting wilder and wilder. The man is dressed with a robe. Celebration clothes, but what kind of celebration? A ring is place on his hand. Sounds for me very much like a wedding. A calf is killed so that they could eat, sounds like a wedding dinner. But a ring on his hand? Can it be anything clearer, it must be a wedding. But where is the woman to merry? There is not talking about any woman to merry him. But what kind of wedding then? Actually there is a very famous wedding in the bible in the spiritual way. The wedding of the lamb.

Revelation 19:7-9 ESV / 79 helpful votes Helpful Not Helpful
Let us rejoice and exult and give him the glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and his Bride has made herself ready; it was granted her to clothe herself with fine linen, bright and pure”— for the fine linen is the righteous deeds of the saints. And the angel said to me, “Write this: Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb.” And he said to me, “These are the true words of God.”

Revelation 19:7 ESV / 61 helpful votes
Let us rejoice and exult and give him the glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and his Bride has made herself ready;

It a wedding were the lamb Jesus shall be married to his bride. And as far as I see that the bride is gods people. Traditonaly as far as I see it is only the bride that shall have the ring, while other times both will have a ring. So can this wedding be this wedding. Well let us look at another bible verse about a wedding in heaven:

Matthew 22:1-14 ESV / 49 helpful votes Helpful Not Helpful
And again Jesus spoke to them in parables, saying, “The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who gave a wedding feast for his son, and sent his servants to call those who were invited to the wedding feast, but they would not come. Again he sent other servants, saying, ‘Tell those who are invited, See, I have prepared my dinner, my oxen and my fat calves have been slaughtered, and everything is ready. Come to the wedding feast.’ But they paid no attention and went off, one to his farm, another to his business, ..

Look at the menu: Fat calves have been slaughtered. So fat calves is a wedding dish. And this wedding is supposed to be in heaven. Well it seemes more and more obvious that this land of the king in the prodigal son is indeed in heaven. 

25 “Now his older son was in the field. And as he came and drew near to the house, he heard music and dancing. 26 So he called one of the servants and asked what these things meant. 27 And he said to him, ‘Your brother has come, and because he has received him safe and sound, your father has killed the fatted calf.’
28 “But he was angry and would not go in. Therefore his father came out and pleaded with him. 29 So he answered and said to his father, ‘Lo, these many years I have been serving you; I never transgressed your commandment at any time; and yet you never gave me a young goat, that I might make merry with my friends. 30 But as soon as this son of yours came, who has devoured your livelihood with harlots, you killed the fatted calf for him.’
31 “And he said to him, ‘Son, you are always with me, and all that I have is yours. 32 It was right that we should make merry and be glad, for your brother was dead and is alive again, and was lost and is found.’ ”

There are many things her. Let us not pay so much attention to the other son now. But the father said your brother was dead and is alive again. He was lost and now found. So the story is about a man that once was spiritually alive, was dead spiritually, and is alive spiritually again. A man that once was on the right place, went out and got lost, and was found by his father on the way. Sounds to me that he was born again. If one is spiritual dead when you are born, and have the possibility to be born again on earth, then the foreign land or the land far away must be the earth. And if when he returned to the land, there was a wedding with not a woman, but with the son. I think we are talking about the wedding of the lamb, in heaven. Which means this land is heaven. If the land is heaven, then the son once lived in heaven, went to the earth was found on the way to heaven, and entered heaven for the second time. The son cannot have been Jesus, because the son sinned greatly. Jesus was without sin. A son is most likely a sheep that belongs to Jesus. A sheep that went astray and was found by his shepherd.

Is there any other bible verses that support the idea that we might have lived in heaven before entering the earth: Yes plenty. But it might all be way more complicated than what we have heard on Sunday school. For it all to make sense.

Jeremiah 1:5
“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.”
This indicated that God knew Jeremiah before that process.
One of the argument that people use against this thought is this:

John 8: 23
Then He told them, “You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world.
I have heard argument that since Jesus says this to people. They are of this world, they cant have come from heaven. But their soul was created on the earth. But Jesus to not treat all the same. This he said to a crowd of jews. He said something totally different to his disciples.

John 17:16
They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.
Most people know that Jesus clearly stated in his answer that he was first in heaven before entering the earth. Here when he pray he say that “just as I am not of the world, they(the disciple) are not of the world”.

John 15:19
If you were of the world, the world would love you as its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you.
Jesus saying that the disciple are not of the world.

1 John 5:19 ESV / 98 helpful votes Helpful Not Helpful
We know that we are from God, and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.
John 17:18
As You sent Me into the world, I have also sent them into the world.

So in the same way that Jesus was sent into this world, he sent his disciple into the world. For me the word “sent into” and “created in” is crashing words. Jesus makes his disciple different from the Jewish crowd. And that argument cant be used about the sheep belonging to Jesus.

[Athanasius]

Hands up: who wants to engage with pseudo-Origen, and who wants to get straight to the boot?

[RabbiKnife]

I was asleep before the 3rd sentence so I’m not qualified…

[Fenris]

I was asleep before the 3rd sentence so I’m not qualified…

At least there are paragraph breaks.

[journeyman]

Did our soul exist before we become humans?

I've wondered the same thing. You may not be far off Andyrollon, but it's unanswerable to me.

[Athanasius]

The answer is no because a human being is not a soul that inhabits a body, or a soul and a body that are brought together. Notice the lack of reference to the actual creation narrative? Me too. Closing.