Persecution Of Jews By Christians?

[Oscar_Kipling]

Careful, or you will be required to sing the Very Sorry Songg, unless you are posting in a No Song Zong or touching the Opposite Pole, in which I will have to sing.

Granted that the 12 disciples were indeed schmucks, there were also an addition 58, plus an addition 50 plus in the Upper Room, plus, well, as the Thessalonian citizens complained, they "turned the world upside down."

I guess for me, the ultimate issue is the sin issue.  I've studied a gazillioni (that's a brazillian, will 3 extra zeroes) world religions (granted, which a pre-existing Christian bias), and I can't find any that deal adequately with the eternal evilality/evilness of sin.

If there is a God, and I'm fine on that issue, and if there is evil, and I'm quite sure about that, then there has to be a way to resolve the seemingly incomprehensible discrepancy with their co-existence, and the Christian ethic of vicarious atonement is the only one that gets there for me.  Everything else ends with evil still either having power or co-existing with good.

But that's me.

I think that's 6 3/4 points, subject to revisions as the rules change, since we can only use the rules twice except for the rules that we can use more than twice.

Look, I'll put the flag back, but i'm not singing the song because I already made an opposite-opposite declaration by not declaring it.

I won't pretend to have studied even a brazilian religions much less a gazillion, though I did once watch a youtube video of a missionary guy trying to explain the Christian afterlife to an indigenous fellow in the amazon and amusingly he was having none of it. Not to go on too much of a tangent,but I've seen several instances where indigenous hunter gatherers seem to dismiss the idea of an afterlife or simply assert that they don't know which I think is an interesting bit of pragmatism...or something.

I guess I am not burdened with those particular issues with sin and evil, that is that they need to be dealt with in some ultimate way. From my perspective it seems pretty clear that sin and evil (such as it is) both have power and coexist with good (such as it is) sometimes in the same person, sometimes in the same moment or action. Anyway your dissatisfaction driven by the need for their to be some resolution to the discrepancy you described is both common and personally familiar, it's also exactly why I believe (at least in part) the concept of substitutiary atonement came into being, or why killing an animal could make up for missing your kid's birthday or why saying a prayer for every bead in a special necklace makes up for checking out your bosses wife at the Christmas party. Not for nothing I read something somewhere about the effects of something I believe is called moral priming, or ethical priming maybe, anyway its about how thinking about rules or ethics can prime folks to be less disposed to engaging in rule breaking behaviors. The rituals and traditions and concepts that make us think about doing the right thing probably predisposes us toward doing the right thing, I mean like some percentage above replacement. To me that makes actual sense, but when I think about it in the Christian context, that all of these mysteries and plans are supposed to be real it really starts to fall apart...Like even if I handwave away the issue of foresight, that is the problems with the idea of God enacting a plan for a universe that he "hopes" will succeed but knows will fail almost immediately and is sort of constantly coming up with patches and reboots, I cannot fathom how God ever thought it would work in the first place, like if he had asked me i'd have been like 'oh, no, no, nope, nah, this isn't going to do what you want it to". Like it really had no hope of succeeding and the solution makes even less sense than the problem ...like the only value I can see in the bible is in the metatextual sense because it literally cannot be taken literally or you wind up with folks like who are reasonable and probably good salt of the earth folk,  except they can't see that sin and evil and good are things that people think and do, and life is not ultimately fair and death is not ultimately fair and forgiveness is a choice you can make without anybody being crucified and no one deserves eternal anything and that doesn't matter because no one gets eternal anything anyway. idk


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[journeyman]

Also, our Lord said,

Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you Jn.15:20

So people can know how the ones who condemned Jesus were wrong when they thought God was exacting judgment against him,

Dear friends, do not be surprised at the fiery ordeal that has come on you to test you, as though something strange were happening to you.
But rejoice inasmuch as you participate in the sufferings of Christ, so that you may be overjoyed when his glory is revealed. 1Pet.4:12-13 😊

[Fenris]

Where to begin? The Crusades? The Inquisition? The blood libels? The forced conversions? The expulsions? Martin Luther's screeds?

[RabbiKnife]

Kanye

[Fenris]

Kanye

I appreciate the humor but it's really a serious and sad topic.

[Fenris]

Most of you have probably never heard of this sad phenomena.

Host Desecration

Host desecration is a form of sacrilege in Christian denominations that follow the doctrine of the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist. It involves the mistreatment or malicious use of a consecrated host—the bread used in the Eucharistic service of the Divine Liturgy or Mass (also known by Protestants simply as Communion bread).

Specifically-

Accusations of host desecration (German: Hostienschändung) leveled against Jews were a common pretext for massacres and expulsions throughout the Middle Ages in Europe.

and

The penalties for Jews accused of defiling sacred hosts were severe. Many Jews, after accusations and torture, "confessed" to abusing hosts, and the accused Jews were condemned and burned, sometimes with all the other Jews in the community, as happened in Beelitz in 1243, in Prague in 1389, and in many German cities, according to Ocker's writings in the Harvard Theological Review. According to William Nichol, over 100 instances of Jews pleading guilty to the desecration of sacred hosts have been recorded.

[RabbiKnife]

I've reached a point in my life that the depth of evil of mankind is no longer a surprise at any level.

When one is evil, any excuse to commit evil is deemed justification.

Satan is either still pissed that he failed to destroy the bloodline of Jesus and is now just vengeful, or he thinks the Messiah is yet to come through the Jewish people.  The fact that Satan drives evil men to commit evil deeds is not unexpected.

Of course, one one believes that flour and water becomes magic bread, that kind of religious delusion leads those holding to the magic bread theory to commit all sorts of evil ostensibly in the "name of Jesus" in order to protect the delusion of the magic bread.

[Fenris]

When one is evil, any excuse to commit evil is deemed justification.

Topic of discussion is "Persecution Of Jews By Christians." Did Christians persecute Jews? Yes.

[RabbiKnife]

Ah, so now is the call to be anti-racist?  It is no longer sufficient to merely not be racist?

Is there any suggestion that non-anti-semitic Christians must now embrace their inherent anti-semitism, declare themselves anti-anti-semites, and repent in sackcloth and ashes (or would that be considered cultural appropriation?)

Seriously, bro, I don't understand the point of this thread.

Have Jews been persecuted since Abraham pulled the U-Haul our of Ur?  yes.
Have SOME Christians persecuted Jews since the morning of the resurrection of Jesus? Yes.
Is persecution of the Jewish people consistent with a true Christian world view and ethic?  No

[Athanasius]

I believe that's the /thread.