James 4.11

[Fenris]

Right, the thought is that he was a Hellenized Jew.

Some scholars feel that way. Others suggest that he was a gentile.

It is unthinkable to me that the founders of the Christian Church were anything other than Jews

Why?

[RandyPNW]

Right, the thought is that he was a Hellenized Jew.

Some scholars feel that way. Others suggest that he was a gentile.

It is unthinkable to me that the founders of the Christian Church were anything other than Jews

Why?

Because Gentiles knew nothing about Jewish Law. Nobody could tell the story unless they knew about the Law and about the experience of the Jewish People, unless they knew the Torah thoroughly. That's why all of the early Christian leaders were Jews--all of the Apostles. They were appointed, specifically, by Jesus to transmit the Jewish Gospel to the Gentile world, to go into "all nations." They were chosen because they were Jewish and also because they were specifically trained by Jesus.

Paul is an exception. He had no personal training by Jesus, but claimed to have mystic revelation of him. Future leaders were trained by believing Jews, trained by Jesus, or by Jewish converts who were trained by the Apostles and their co-workers among the Jews.

I have to be honest. I've been a Christian my entire life, and received catechism as a Lutheran. I've been reading the Jewish and Christian Bibles my entire life, and yet until I turned 17 I don't think I grasped much significance outside of Lutheran systematic theology.

It has taken me a lifetime to recognize the connection between Jewish instruction under the Law and Christian revelation. And that's why I post in the forums, to share with those who I know won't be able to see the connection very easily.

Most Christians simply present Christian doctrine, or quote NT Scriptures, without fully understanding its metamorphosis from Jewish teaching to Christian teaching. I've had an enormous burden, from an early age, to understand where Paul got his information from, and how he justified the transition from Law to Gospel.

I've never wanted to just argue a "position." Rather, I want to understand *why* I hold to a particular position. Understanding Paul helps me to know why I'm a Christian instead of a convert to Judaism.

[Fenris]

Because Gentiles knew nothing about Jewish Law. Nobody could tell the story unless they knew about the Law and about the experience of the Jewish People, unless they knew the Torah thoroughly.

I mean, it would kind of depend, right? If someone is an apostle and all they do is quote Jesus and talk about his life, why would it matter if they were Jewish or not? Their knowledge of the Jewish bible would not really be relevant. And Luke wasn't trained by Jesus, it's my understanding that he was a disciple of Paul.

Most Christians simply present Christian doctrine, or quote NT Scriptures, without fully understanding its metamorphosis from Jewish teaching to Christian teaching. I've had an enormous burden, from an early age, to understand where Paul got his information from, and how he justified the transition from Law to Gospel.

Yeah. I don't really see were Paul is coming from though. I think there's a disconnect between what Paul says and what Jesus says. And it's interesting to me that most Christians don't see it. 

[greenonions]

Most Christians simply present Christian doctrine, or quote NT Scriptures, without fully understanding its metamorphosis from Jewish teaching to Christian teaching. I've had an enormous burden, from an early age, to understand where Paul got his information from, and how he justified the transition from Law to Gospel.

Yeah. I don't really see were Paul is coming from though. I think there's a disconnect between what Paul says and what Jesus says. And it's interesting to me that most Christians don't see it.

I think Paul got a lot of his theology from his vision of Jesus on the road to Damascus.

Acts 26:15 “I said, ‘Who are you, Lord?’
“He said, ‘I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. 16 But arise, and stand on your feet, for I have appeared to you for this purpose: to appoint you a servant and a witness both of the things which you have seen, and of the things which I will reveal to you; 17 delivering you from the people, and from the Gentiles, to whom I send you, 18 to open their eyes, that they may turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive remission of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in me.’

1) Jesus is alive and is the glorious Lord
2) He is sent to preach to Gentiles
3) Remission of sins
4) Inheritance with believing Jews -- I think this is the mystery of the church that Paul talks about in Ephesians 2 and 3, where both Jews and Gentiles make up the church.
5) Sanctified by faith in me -- see Romans 4 and Galatians 2-4. Paul talks about being justified by faith in Jesus, and not depending on fully keeping the law to earn salvation (because he couldn't do keep it perfectly).

These seem very similar to what Jesus Himself taught:

Luke 24:46 He said to them, “Thus it is written, and thus it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead the third day, 47 and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name to all the nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

[RandyPNW]

I think Paul got a lot of his theology from his vision of Jesus on the road to Damascus.

Acts 26:15 “I said, ‘Who are you, Lord?’
“He said, ‘I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. 16 But arise, and stand on your feet, for I have appeared to you for this purpose: to appoint you a servant and a witness both of the things which you have seen, and of the things which I will reveal to you; 17 delivering you from the people, and from the Gentiles, to whom I send you, 18 to open their eyes, that they may turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive remission of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in me.’

1) Jesus is alive and is the glorious Lord
2) He is sent to preach to Gentiles
3) Remission of sins
4) Inheritance with believing Jews -- I think this is the mystery of the church that Paul talks about in Ephesians 2 and 3, where both Jews and Gentiles make up the church.
5) Sanctified by faith in me -- see Romans 4 and Galatians 2-4. Paul talks about being justified by faith in Jesus, and not depending on fully keeping the law to earn salvation (because he couldn't do keep it perfectly).

These seem very similar to what Jesus Himself taught:

Luke 24:46 He said to them, “Thus it is written, and thus it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead the third day, 47 and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name to all the nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

I agree. Jesus' earthly ministry largely took place while the Law, as a covenant, was still in effect. But the same truths existed, that mankind, apart from Christ's redemption, could not be saved by the Law alone.