The Nature of Fallen Man

[RandyPNW]

So when does a child experience or express or interface with "conscience"

Good question. For a fact I recall when a tiny tot my blanket was taken away. And my parents insisted on taking my blanket away. I had been eating my blanket out of nervousness.

And I threw a loud fit to the point I felt inwardly embarrassed, because I knew I was "acting." I knew they had a reason to take my shredded blanket away.

I have a distinct memory of that moment.  Yes, I had a sensitive conscience from infancy. Where the sense of conscience begins, I suppose, is from the beginning, though very undeveloped.

I suppose it was at around four, or five years old that I first entered into Sunday School on my own, without my parents. I distinctly remember the pride of joining my child-peers in our own meeting time.

And I also distinctly remember hearing the song sung by all the children, "Jesus loves me this I know." I remember feeling kind of excited about that! I'm neither bragging nor complaining--just saying. You decide when the conscience is "expressed?"

[ProDeo]

The privation of this gift resulted in humanity falling back into its "merely natural state" separated from the (supernatural) gifts of God. We were, in other words, placed under the limitations of our nature, and those were limitations that direct access to God had removed.

This still does not answer the question, why did God decided that the rest of human kind (not taking part in the sin of A&E) would fall  into its "merely natural state".

[Athanasius]

The privation of this gift resulted in humanity falling back into its "merely natural state" separated from the (supernatural) gifts of God. We were, in other words, placed under the limitations of our nature, and those were limitations that direct access to God had removed.

This still does not answer the question, why did God decided that the rest of human kind (not taking part in the sin of A&E) would fall  into its "merely natural state".

Because in disobeying God Adam and Eve removed themselves, and the whole of humanity consequently, from God's presence; or, as a result of Adam and Eve's disobedience God removed humanity from His presence.

While their nature didn't change, the parameters of Adam's and Eve's world changed, insofar as their understanding of 'good and evil' developed, then evolved, imperfectly. To say nothing of their realisation of shame, guilt, embarrassment, regret. Genesis 3 as the origin of all negative emotion, basically. And humanity is a social species, made to be in relationship with God, each other, creation. I don't see how it would be possible to, say, remove Adam and Eve from the garden, but then allow their children in until they too, sinned, and so on, and so on.

When they sinned, they choose for all of us. At least we're granted the mercy of never knowing exactly what we lost, but I guess we're also cursed with ever-reaching for it. Of course, we'll get it back and more.

[ProDeo]

Yep, standard view.

And it is as it is.

And yet I don't understand that the punishment of A&E is also the punishment for their children, grand children, eventually you, me and everyone who lived.

Ez 18:20 - The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.

It's our standard too, we don't blame / punish children for the sins of the parents.

Contrary to this is Exodus 20:5 - You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the LORD your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me.

It's all a bit confusing, don't you think so too?

[Athanasius]

Yep, standard view.

And it is as it is.

And yet I don't understand that the punishment of A&E is also the punishment for their children, grand children, eventually you, me and everyone who lived.

Ez 18:20 - The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.

It's our standard too, we don't blame / punish children for the sins of the parents.

Contrary to this is Exodus 20:5 - You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the LORD your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me.

It's all a bit confusing, don't you think so too?

I see it as a natural consequence, rather than a punishment, which is often artificial in that it doesn't naturally follow the event. So, just as future generations have to live with the earth in whatever state we pass it on to them...