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Quote from: NeutralZone on August 14, 2026, 04:03:17 PM

Quote from: RabbiKnife on August 14, 2026, 03:54:22 PM

A nontrinitarian heretic for sure

Don’t get comfortable…

I showed you the context to your cherry-picked verses, and that's your idea of an effective rebuttal?  Why am I not surprised that you don't care what the Bible actually says?

I care what the Bible says

I don’t dive a tinkers damn about your opinion about what the Bible says

So let’s cut to the nub, skippy.


Is Jesus eternal God or a created being?  Tik tok tik tok…

Let God's inspired word, the Judeo-Christian Bible, answer your question.

New International Version -- Colossians 1:15      https://biblehub.com/colossians/1-15.htm
"The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation."


King James Bible -- John 3:16      https://biblehub.com/kjv/john/3.htm
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."


Definition of begotten:
": brought into existence by or as if by a parent"

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/begotten

How about John 1:3
Hebrews 1:2
Colossians 1:16

This is tedious

Jesus as God and creator has been a foundational pillar of Christian orthodoxy from the beginning of post resurrection Christian faith and practice.

Are you arguing for a non trinitarian heresy or just flapping your arms about?

Resorting to schoolyard insults is hardly the way to take this conversation, RabbiKnife.  Unless you can produce scripture to support your personal philosophy, you have no legitimate argument.

How about John 1:3
Hebrews 1:2
Colossians 1:16

New Living Translation -- John 1:3       https://biblehub.com/nlt/john/1.htm
"God created everything through him, and nothing was created except through him."


Christian Standard Bible -- Hebrews 1:2        https://biblehub.com/csb/hebrews/1.htm
"In these last days, he has spoken to us by his Son. God has appointed him heir of all things and made the universe through him."



New Living Translation -- Colossians 1:16            https://biblehub.com/nlt/colossians/1.htm
"for through him God created everything in the heavenly realms and on earth. He made the things we can see and the things we can’t see— such as thrones, kingdoms, rulers, and authorities in the unseen world. Everything was created through him and for him."


Look at the words that I bolded in blue.  All three scriptures say the same thing: that God (the Father) is Creator.  In fact, Colossians 1:15 says Jesus Christ himself is a created being.


Berean Standard Bible -- Colossians 1:15           https://biblehub.com/bsb/colossians/1.htm
"The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.

Quote from: NeutralZone on August 13, 2026, 08:25:49 PM

Quote from: Richard Aberdeen on August 06, 2026, 05:27:55 PM

God is "us" in Genesis and is three persons in one being, unlike us humans, who are one person in one being. 

Jesus says to baptize in the name of the father, the son and the holy spirit, who are God; three persons in one being.

This is not a doctrine, it is the reality of what God is.  The word mistranslated as "doctrine" in modern Bibles simply means teaching; there is correct teaching and bad teaching.  There is no such thing as "doctrines" in the Bible.

At Genesis 1:26, the Abrahamic God was speaking to another spirit being, which is why the word "us" was used.


English Standard Version -- Genesis 1:26
"Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”

You could highlight the word our also if you're going for completeness. But then it begs three questions at a minimum: (1) who is/are the '[other] spirit being[ s]' who share an image with God, and (2) what does this imply about being made in God's + image, and (3) why are we assuming 'another spirit being' (singular) when our own in-God's-???-imageness includes a rather obvious physicality?

Divine councils. Polytheistic Israelites. Silversun Pickups. Where we going?

Richard Aberdeen mentioned only the word "us" in his post, which is why I only addressed that particular pronoun.

To answer your three questions:

1.  There were millions of angels in existence at the time the Abrahamic God spoke what is recorded at Genesis 1:26, and they are all literally in Almighty God's image because they are all spirit beings.

King James Bible -- Revelation 5:11              https://biblehub.com/kjv/revelation/5.htm
"And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;"


2.  Since humans are fleshly beings rather than spirit beings, the implication is that humans being made in God's image refers to their being endowed with God's four outstanding attributes: Love, Justice, Wisdom, and Power.  Humans are the only creatures on earth that possess all four of those attributes.


3.  Scripture makes it clear that the Almighty was speaking to one particular spirit being because it informs the reader that the Almighty created everything and allowed this one particular spirit being the privilege of having the creating done THROUGH him.

New Living Translation -- Colossians 1:16         https://biblehub.com/nlt/colossians/1.htm
"for through him God created everything in the heavenly realms and on earth. He made the things we can see and the things we can’t see— such as thrones, kingdoms, rulers, and authorities in the unseen world. Everything was created through him and for him."

While the Apostle John elaborates more on this verse in First John:
And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding that we may know Him that is True, and that we are in Him that is Trueeven in His Son Jesus Christ, This is the True God, and eternal life I John 5:20

When Jesus refers to the Father as Greater then Himself, John 14:28, it is easily explained in this statement: But we see Jesus Who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that He by the grace of God should taste death for every man.  Hebrew 2:9  By reading Hebrews 2:5-18 we see that Jesus was our High Priest Who was Fully God and Fully Man becoming Mediator, Galatians 3:20; I Timothy 2:5-6 between the Holy Father and sinful man which is what Job cried out for, Job9:32-33.

Let me see if I understand what you're saying.  According to scripture at John 14:28, which you correctly referenced in your comment, Jesus made it clear that his heavenly Father is greater than himself.

New King James Version -- John 14:28       https://biblehub.com/nkjv/john/14.htm
"You have heard Me say to you, ‘I am going away and coming back to you.’ If you loved Me, you would rejoice because I said, ‘I am going to the Father,’ for My Father is greater than I."


But then you turned around and contradicted scripture by telling those reading this thread Jesus is fully God.  Please explain how Jesus--who himself said the Father is greater than he is--can also be "fully God."  The same God that he said is greater than himself.

That’s funny

The thief on the cross was immediately in the presence of Jesus in paradise

To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lors

You read a funny Bible

I’ll ask again

Are you Seventh Day Adventist?

According to scripture, Jesus was in the grave for three entire days before he was resurrected back to life by the Abrahamic God. 

English Standard Version -- Matthew 12:40      https://biblehub.com/esv/matthew/12.htm
"For just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."


Not only did Jesus spend three days in the grave, he remained on earth for at least 40 days after his resurrection, according to scripture.


Berean Standard Bible -- Acts 1:3      https://biblehub.com/bsb/acts/1.htm
"After His suffering, He [Jesus] presented Himself to them with many convincing proofs that He was alive. He appeared to them over a span of forty days and spoke about the kingdom of God."


So according to scripture, the thief who died with Jesus was not, as you believe, "immediately in the presence of Jesus in paradise."