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Messages - Billy Evmur
1
« on: April 20, 2025, 06:14:19 AM »
Here is where your argument fails.
The choice is God's choice that He may or may not give. Adam was given the choice, we are not unless God gives it to us. Adam did not have to die, we must die. Adam was not bound to sin, we are.
You're pointing out your own failure. Read below:
Adam had a will of his own, he was free to choose God's will or to die. As long as he was in God's will he was FREE, free as birdie in the sky or a fishy in the river.
Everyone is free unless they aren't unless they are unless they aren't unless they are unless they aren't. It's consistent nonsense, like the UK Supreme Court.
Pardon me? are you saying you have never sinned? are not a sinner? saved by Grace alone? Do you not have to work in order to stay alive? perhaps happily you are retired. Work totally dominates our lives. This was the consequence of being chucked out of the garden. Yes you are right, I have sinned and I was awful What a wonderful change in my life has been wrought since Jesus came into my heart there's a light in my soul which for long I had sought since Jesus came into my heart Since Jesus came into my heart since Jesus came into my heart floods of joy o'er my soul like the sea billows roll since Jesus came into my heart.
2
« on: April 19, 2025, 09:46:56 PM »
Romans 6-vs16
Do you not know that if you yield yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin which leads to death or of righteousness.
what happened to Adam when he obeyed Satan's voice?
He had a will ... but it was not free, we are servants.
Again, you are pointing out that man has the will to choose, and at the same time, try to convince others this will is not free. Here is why I say this, a will has to come from somewhere. We choose to be a slave, we are not made to be a slave, we are not forced to be a slave. God didn't will Adam to eat the fruit, satan didn't will Adam to eat the fruit. God desires that all of mankind be saved, satan desires that none of mankind be saved.
Yet, some of mankind choose to be slaves to God (and be righteous), some choose to be slaves to satan (and remain dead in sin).
We cannot serve 2 masters but we will serve ... where do you read freewill in any of that?
Where? In the verse!!
Why, because the verse is pointed out that "...you..." yield yourself to either God or satan. This single verse reveals that a choice is being made. God isn't forcing (willing) either direction of choice. God doesn't make a man choose Him, satan doesn't make a man choose him and it's clear that God doesn't make any of mankind choose satan. We choose who to follow per the verse, ..." if you yield yourselves..." A choice is being made, freely. Why freely, I repeat myself; because neither God nor satan forces mankind to make the choice, we/you make the choice.
(A)Our perfect freedom is finding God's will for our lives, He has (B)created us for a purpose. Anything short of God's will for our lives will disappoint.
(A) "Our perfect freedom" again, you are literally pointing out our freedom of choice. Remember, Adam didn't "find" God's will for him, he was literally instructed (as all of mankind is through God's Word). But in Adam's case, God spoke to him directly as if you and I would speak together. In Adam's case, God MADE His will clearly known when Adam was ordered not to eat the fruit.
(B) Was Adam's "purpose" to eat of the fruit?? I must ask because this is the only conclusion available based on your words... "He has created us FOR a purpose."
You can't say, "He has created us for a purpose," and when Adam ate the fruit, THEN say, that was not his purpose.
Here is where your argument fails. The choice is God's choice that He may or may not give. Adam was given the choice, we are not unless God gives it to us. Adam did not have to die, we must die. Adam was not bound to sin, we are. The Red Indians did not receive the gospel until the Europeans arrived. And there were folks present at our Lord's meetings of whom He said God had closed their eyes and stopped up their ears and hardened their hearts lest at any time they might see with their eyes and hear with their ears and turn to Him and He heal them. God hides Himself and that is awesome. I do not believe as the majority of Evangelicalism do that people are doomed to hell when they have never heard the gospel and so have not been given the opportunity to "choose" or "decide" according to the Arminian theology. I was listening to a well respected preacher recently saying that the final resurrection is just a formality for in his understanding having failed the rapture they had already been judged .... that is the common belief even if it is not stated in such stark terms. I beg to disagree ... they will, the bible says, be judged and judged with equity. I cannot look into people's souls nor do I have the wisdom to judge or the desire. What I do is trust God implicitly that He will do right. There will not I am certain be billions of goats on that day and just a few straggley sheep
3
« on: April 19, 2025, 06:43:08 AM »
that makes zero sense. God forbade the partaking of the fruit of that tree.
What doesn't make sense is saying Adam had no will to draw from. Yet he made the choice to eat what was forbidden to eat. The will to chose came from somewhere.
a) You say it can't be Adam making the choice because he has no free will to transgress against what is forbidden.
b) You say, based on your response, that God forbid him to eat the fruit, thus it was not God's will that Adam eat the fruit (I fully agree with you on this point)
c) However, a "will" is active, a will that caused (enabled) a SINLESS Adam to defy God's will = don't ever eat that fruit. Thus, due to defying (transgressing) God's will, Adam became a sinner = spiritually died and all of mankind since, is born of sin.
What "will" enabled Adam to defy God's will?
If not a "will," what power enabled Adam to make a choice to defy God's will?
Romans 6-vs16 Do you not know that if you yield yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin which leads to death or of righteousness. what happened to Adam when he obeyed Satan's voice? He had a will ... but it was not free, we are servants. We cannot serve 2 masters but we will serve ... where do you read freewill in any of that? Our perfect freedom is finding God's will for our lives, He has created us for a purpose. Anything short of God's will for our lives will disappoint.
4
« on: April 18, 2025, 05:45:24 PM »
I have to keep answering again and again
Adam had a will of his own, he was free to choose God's will or to die. As long as he was in God's will he was FREE, free as birdie in the sky or a fishy in the river.
Nothing could harm him in his garden of abundance and beauty .... did you know that is STILL God's will for man, for YOU . It is what we are created for. Adam's amen to all this was simply to live. The only alternative was to die.
That is no definition of freewill, it's God's will or nothing
Romans 12
My brothers I implore you therefore by the mercies of God to present your bodies as a living sacrifice holy and acceptable to God which is your spiritual worship.
Do not be conformed to this world but be transformed by the renewal of your mind that you may prove what is the WILL OF GOD, what is good and acceptable and perfect.
How can you even talk about human freewill? we's supposed to be in God's will.
The only choice man has ever had is to live or die, if we live we are in God's will, if we die, dead men do not have freewill.
Do you know why you want freewill? this will shock you, prepare for a shock brother.
You don't really trust God, you don't really trust that His will is best for you.
The devil DECEIVED Eve and Adam into believing there was a 3rd choice, they could sin and not die. You and I can only imagine what a heady mixture this was, this temptation when it came. That rush of blood to the head.
It was under that deception that man sinned ... the deception that he had freewill.
We are created to do God's will. That is our life, our love, our everything. instead of fishies flapping around on the river bank in the froes of death we are placed back into our river of delight.
The only conclusion that is discerned from your answer is; it was God's will that Adam eat the fruit and Adam was obedient to God's will.
that makes zero sense. God forbade the partaking of the fruit of that tree.
5
« on: April 18, 2025, 06:22:47 AM »
's no such thing as human freewill
6
« on: April 18, 2025, 06:20:49 AM »
Is that the 47th or 48th time?
We’re not buying what you’re selling.
You’ve become boring
if you ask the same question you get the same answer.
7
« on: April 18, 2025, 05:05:04 AM »
Man has a will but it is not free it is everywhere in scripture enslaved by sin.
I'm gonna ask (again) the question you won't address... Adam was NOT enslaved to sin, so who's will was it that he chose to transgress against God?
I have to keep answering again and again Adam had a will of his own, he was free to choose God's will or to die. As long as he was in God's will he was FREE, free as birdie in the sky or a fishy in the river. Nothing could harm him in his garden of abundance and beauty .... did you know that is STILL God's will for man, for YOU . It is what we are created for. Adam's amen to all this was simply to live. The only alternative was to die. That is no definition of freewill, it's God's will or nothing Romans 12 My brothers I implore you therefore by the mercies of God to present your bodies as a living sacrifice holy and acceptable to God which is your spiritual worship. Do not be conformed to this world but be transformed by the renewal of your mind that you may prove what is the WILL OF GOD, what is good and acceptable and perfect. How can you even talk about human freewill? we's supposed to be in God's will. The only choice man has ever had is to live or die, if we live we are in God's will, if we die, dead men do not have freewill. Do you know why you want freewill? this will shock you, prepare for a shock brother. You don't really trust God, you don't really trust that His will is best for you. The devil DECEIVED Eve and Adam into believing there was a 3rd choice, they could sin and not die. You and I can only imagine what a heady mixture this was, this temptation when it came. That rush of blood to the head. It was under that deception that man sinned ... the deception that he had freewill. We are created to do God's will. That is our life, our love, our everything. instead of fishies flapping around on the river bank in the froes of death we are placed back into our river of delight.
8
« on: April 17, 2025, 08:18:36 PM »
God forbade sin. The very fact that He forbade it destroys the idea that we have freewill.
If you give your kids freewill and they go and smash up the neighbourhood then YOU are responsible.
If mankind has no will to transgress against God, how is man able to transgress at all?
Man has a will but it is not free it is everywhere in scripture enslaved by sin.
9
« on: April 17, 2025, 08:16:08 PM »
John Duschendorf better known as John Denver
10
« on: April 17, 2025, 07:20:43 PM »
One of the most lovely pieces of music I ever heard is Cavatina by John Williams [the deer hunter] I once heard someone singing a song to it, a silly song I thought and I begged the Lord to give me words that would fit the tune ... then I sat down to write. Lord You were beautiful
beautiful to behold
put to shame Lord, in weakness
God's love is told
There stood where I should have stood
in Your love You took my place
in Your Person bearing
all of my disgrace
No, not in majesty
comeliness to behold
but in pain Lord, in sorrow
God's love is told
There stood as a felon in bonds
so that I might go free
oh I love You Lord Jesus
on Calvary's tree
Yes You were beautiful
beautiful to behold
not in power but in weakness
God's love is told
So very beautiful
God's love behold. [/i]
11
« on: April 16, 2025, 03:56:18 AM »
We can just print some more to cover the interest
We can’t be out of money…. We still have checks in the checkbook…
Trump's solution is tariffs and Doge ... if it works I'm predicting he will at least halve that debt by the next election
12
« on: April 16, 2025, 03:51:04 AM »
Oh I thought the Great Tribulation, the Jews are really going to get it, after all isn't it called the time of Jacob's trouble?
But what does the bible say?
Jeremiah 30.4-11
These are the words which the Lord spoke concerning Israel and Judah
thus says the Lord
we have heard a cry of panic, of terror and no peace.
Ask now and see, can a man bear a child?
why then do I see every man with his hands on his loins like a woman in labour? why is every face turned pale?
Alas for that day is so great, there is no day like it, it is even the day of Jacob's trouble but he shall be saved out of it
And it shall come to pass in that day says the Lord of hosts that I will break the yoke from off their neck and I will burst the bonds and strangers shall no more make servants of them. But they shall serve the Lord their God and David their King whom I will raise up for them.
Therefore FEAR NOT O JACOB My servant says the Lord
NOR BE DISMAYED O ISRAEL for lo I will save you from afar and your offspring from the land of your captivity.
Jacob shall return and have quiet and ease and none shall make him afraid. For I am with you to SAVE YOU says the Lord.
I will make a full end of all the nations among whom I have scattered you but of you I will not make a full end. I will chasten you in measure and I will by no means leave you unpunished.
You see it is the woman who travails, the spouse, the church ... the man, Israel is God's firstborn son, does not travail.
13
« on: April 15, 2025, 09:06:44 PM »
So you either don’t know or won’t say…
How does this lack of certainty play in your rigid eschatology?
Hey, I bin saved 48 years, I've scarcely heard 2 Christians who have the same beliefs regarding eschatology. One thing they all seem to agree upon is that them Jews are sure gunna cop it again once things get started. I never heard anybody who believes what I believe, that it is the church who must go through the Great Tribulation while the Jews for the most part will be kept safe ... more I believe Israel must expand, must become a super power. How else can they stay safe while Antichrist is doing his darnedest to stamp out all religion? At sometime Ac will renege on the the pact he has with Israel and he will invade and storm Jerusalem, there will be a little skirmish there. But then the Lord will return and He will destroy Ac and all the armies of the nations who came with him. THAT is when Israel will be converted, when they look upon Him whom they have pierced and Zech says God will pour upon the WHOLE nation a spirit of compassion and supplication and as a whole nation the men separated from the women will pray. That is how I understand Paul's statement "so all Israel will be saved"
14
« on: April 15, 2025, 03:02:44 PM »
So then, it all depends on what you want it to say.
Check.
So when you insist on your particular eschatological interpretation, you mean that only the Jews alive at a given point in time will ALL come to accept Jesus, and to hell with the one's that weren't lucky enough to have been born and alive at that time.
Got it.
So THOSE Jews get a bonus.
You can play around as much as you like. The scripture says also that "though Israel were as many as the sand of the seashore yet only a remnant will be saved."
I do not believe only a few, a remnant will be saved. You have to weigh scripture against scripture to get the true meaning of scripture.
So which is it?
All?
Or a remnant?
I thought earlier you said "ALL." Now you say something else? And you disagree with the Word when it says "remnant."
How do you decide?
You have to read both scriptures in the context of which they were given. I would love to believe that every single Jew will be saved but it cannot be so for Jesus said to Judas "it were better for you if you had never been born" You have to consider the purpose of "remnant" they were those who clung to the Lord during a time of great apostacy. Their job was to keep the faith of Jehovah God alive. In God's time they were instrumental in the reign of Jehu in turning the hearts and minds of Israel back to God.
15
« on: April 15, 2025, 02:49:27 PM »
No rational believer believe that we chose Jesus. We all admit that Jesus chose us. What does that have to do with free will.
Jesus chose Judas, too, but we see how that worked out.
Why do you live in such a mentally constipated world?
Do you not understand that sovereign election and free moral agency are completely compatible without man being the source of salvation or of God being the source of evil?
Your rigid refusal to look outside the box of what you have been told must be eliminates from your conversation the possibilities of what can be, and which is -- mentally, philosophically, and spiritually -- true and satisfying.
God is sovereign. God chose. God made man with free moral agency. Because of God's foreknowledge, He is not limited to what must be but is free to see what could be.
Geez, it's listening to conversations like this that have pushed many of my friends and colleagues completely away from the Gospel.
"'Cause I said so" is not an answer.
The idea that we have freewill is the devil's debate zone
God says "thou shalt not lest ye die" we do not have freewill in the matter, as soon as you stop to consider a temptation, the devil will come in and say "you won't die" we start to imagine we can get away with sin.
then BANG you are doing it
Stating a false narrative 37 times doesn't make it any more true.
You keep making God the author of sin.
That's what the evolutionists do in every science and nature programme they hammer it into peoples head until everyone believes it and anyone who disagrees is mocked and despised. It is called brainwashing and is the devil. He has done the same thing in the church with the false doctrine of human freewill.
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