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Messages - gordon7
1
« on: March 01, 2023, 06:29:50 PM »
You see we had a nice discussion now, and it was fun too.
2
« on: March 01, 2023, 06:27:02 PM »
I ask again, why was Israel punished with blindness, hardening of heart ?
The answer is, because of being a disobedient and gainsaying people.
A rebellious people and God recompenses their evil on them. Perfect. I'll post it again!
Surely he took up our pain
and bore our suffering,
yet we considered him punished by God,
stricken by him, and afflicted.
Cant take the pain of a people left hardened and blinded, but can of a people given a soft heart of a new covenant. Isaiah 6:10 Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed. Isaiah 63:17 O Lord, why hast thou made us to err from thy ways, and hardened our heart from thy fear? Return for thy servants' sake, the tribes of thine inheritance. Jeremiah 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: 32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord: 33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. Ezekiel 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
3
« on: March 01, 2023, 06:22:48 PM »
You miss out the first verse ?
Isaiah 53:1 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed?
You missed the preceding verses. Really this is one of the worst chapter breaks in the bible.
Let's start from 52:13, which is the real start of the chapter:
Behold, My Servant will prosper; He will be raised and lifted up and highly exalted.
Who is the servant? Clue: The servant is identified by name around 9 times between Is 40 and Is 52. I leave it as an exercise for the reader to figure out who it is. Continuing...
Just as many were appalled at Him— His appearance was disfigured beyond that of any man, and His form was marred beyond human likeness—
The servant isn't even considered to be human. Fits nicely with "he was despised, and we held him in low esteem."
so he will startle many nations. Kings will shut their mouths because of him. For they will see what they have not been told, and they will understand what they have not heard.
Now we get to the verse you posted.
Who hath believed our report?
Who is speaking here? It's not the Jews. It's the startled kings in the previous verse.
It all makes sense.
Yes it makes sense that the Jews cant consider what the Messiah says due to having their hearts hardened, but the kings can consider due to sprinkling. ( the blood of sprinkling is the new covenant, which Judaism does not have, due to being in the only covenant they ever had.) The Gentiles on the other hand, are converted.. Isaiah 6:10 Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed. Isaiah 52:15 So shall he sprinkle many nations; the kings shall shut their mouths at him: for that which had not been told them shall they see; and that which they had not heard shall they consider. Isaiah 60:5 Then thou shalt see, and flow together, and thine heart shall fear, and be enlarged; because the abundance of the sea shall be converted unto thee, the forces of the Gentiles shall come unto thee. Hebrews 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
4
« on: March 01, 2023, 06:13:26 PM »
If that scripture bothered me, does this one help you. ( the blood of Christ was asked to be on the Jews or on the Romans.)
Nope. You claimed that the Jews were punished by God, just like the verse said.
He was despised and rejected by mankind,
a man of suffering, and familiar with pain.
Like one from whom people hide their faces
he was despised, and we held him in low esteem.
Surely he took up our pain
and bore our suffering,
yet we considered him punished by God,
stricken by him, and afflicted.
I ask again, why was Israel punished with blindness, hardening of heart ? The answer is, because of being a disobedient and gainsaying people. A rebellious people and God recompenses their evil on them. Isaiah 65:2 I have spread out my hands all the day unto a rebellious people, which walketh in a way that was not good, after their own thoughts; 3 A people that provoketh me to anger continually to my face; that sacrificeth in gardens, and burneth incense upon altars of brick; 4 Which remain among the graves, and lodge in the monuments, which eat swine's flesh, and broth of abominable things is in their vessels; 5 Which say, Stand by thyself, come not near to me; for I am holier than thou. These are a smoke in my nose, a fire that burneth all the day. 6 Behold, it is written before me: I will not keep silence, but will recompense, even recompense into their bosom, Romans 10:18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world. 19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you. 20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me. 21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.
5
« on: March 01, 2023, 06:08:02 PM »
If that scripture bothered me, does this one help you. ( the blood of Christ was asked to be on the Jews or on the Romans.)
Nope. You claimed that the Jews were punished by God, just like the verse said.
He was despised and rejected by mankind,
a man of suffering, and familiar with pain.
Like one from whom people hide their faces
he was despised, and we held him in low esteem.
Surely he took up our pain
and bore our suffering,
yet we considered him punished by God,
stricken by him, and afflicted.
You miss out the first verse ? Isaiah 53:1 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed? Why weer they not allowed to believe the report ? Because of God blinding their eyes, hardening their heart, to not be converted and healed. ( to not be forgiven as said in Isaiah 53, that you keep quoting.) John 12:37 But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him: 38 That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed? 39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again, 40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them. 41 These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him. 42 Nevertheless among the chief rulers also many believed on him; but because of the Pharisees they did not confess him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue: 43 For they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God.
6
« on: March 01, 2023, 05:59:52 PM »
you are judging others by claiming they are Christians not denying Christ, when you confess you are a Jew ( denying Christ.)
These are my friends you are talking about. I know them for many years. I know what they believe better than you do. You don't know them at all. And I am testifying that they are devout Christians. So take your judgmental attitude elsewhere.
Jesus testified this to the men of Israel: John 8:41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God. 42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. 43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. 44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. 1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
7
« on: March 01, 2023, 05:57:50 PM »
The Jews went into exile ( like a prison) for their own iniquity and trespass against the Lord.
He was despised and rejected by mankind,
a man of suffering, and familiar with pain.
Like one from whom people hide their faces
he was despised, and we held him in low esteem.
Surely he took up our pain
and bore our suffering,
yet we considered him punished by God,
stricken by him, and afflicted.
Matthew 21:33 Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country:
34 And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it.
35 And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another.
36 Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise.
37 But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son.
38 But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.
39 And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.
40 When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?
41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.
42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
43 Therefore say I unto you, THE KINGDOM OF GOD SHALL BE TAKEN FROM YOU, AND GIVEN TO A NATION BRINGING FORTH THE FRUIT THEREOF.
Wow that really bothered you. I'm going to post it again.
You said "The Jews went into exile ( like a prison) for their own iniquity and trespass against the Lord."
My response:
He was despised and rejected by mankind,
a man of suffering, and familiar with pain.
Like one from whom people hide their faces
he was despised, and we held him in low esteem.
Surely he took up our pain
and bore our suffering,
yet we considered him punished by God,
stricken by him, and afflicted.
If that scripture bothered me, does this one help you. ( the blood of Christ was asked to be on the Jews or on the Romans.) Psalm 69:20 Reproach hath broken my heart; and I am full of heaviness: and I looked for some to take pity, but there was none; and for comforters, but I found none. 21 They gave me also gall for my meat; and in my thirst they gave me vinegar to drink. 22 Let their table become a snare before them: and that which should have been for their welfare, let it become a trap. 23 Let their eyes be darkened, that they see not; and make their loins continually to shake. 24 Pour out thine indignation upon them, and let thy wrathful anger take hold of them. 25 Let their habitation be desolate; and let none dwell in their tents. 26 For they persecute him whom thou hast smitten; and they talk to the grief of those whom thou hast wounded. 27 Add iniquity unto their iniquity: and let them not come into thy righteousness. 28 Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous. 29 But I am poor and sorrowful: let thy salvation, O God, set me up on high. Matthew 27:20 But the chief priests and elders persuaded the multitude that they should ask Barabbas, and destroy Jesus. 21 The governor answered and said unto them, Whether of the twain will ye that I release unto you? They said, Barabbas. 22 Pilate saith unto them, What shall I do then with Jesus which is called Christ? They all say unto him, Let him be crucified. 23 And the governor said, Why, what evil hath he done? But they cried out the more, saying, Let him be crucified. 24 When Pilate saw that he could prevail nothing, but that rather a tumult was made, he took water, and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, I am innocent of the blood of this just person: see ye to it. 25 Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children. Matthew 27:33 And when they were come unto a place called Golgotha, that is to say, a place of a skull, 34 They gave him vinegar to drink mingled with gall: and when he had tasted thereof, he would not drink.
8
« on: March 01, 2023, 05:52:33 PM »
Israel had persecuted the prophets and killed those who showed the coming of the Messiah to earth, and they were the betrayers and murderers then of the Just One.
First of all, the Romans killed Jesus, not the Jews. Secondly, "Israel" didn't do anything, the people beseeching Pilate did, which was not all of Israel. Third, Jesus's whole mission was to die. Fourth, Romans 11:
Those led of the rulers were and are destroyed, it always has been that way.. Isaiah 9:16 For the leaders of this people cause them to err; and they that are led of them are destroyed. Matthew 27:20 But the chief priests and elders persuaded the multitude that they should ask Barabbas, and destroy Jesus.
9
« on: March 01, 2023, 05:50:25 PM »
How is it judging others, by showing the judgement of God ?
You are judging others in saying that they deserve the judgement of God. This is spiteful, hateful behavior, and most definitely not Christian.
Yes you are judging others by claiming they are Christians not denying Christ, when you confess you are a Jew ( denying Christ.)
10
« on: March 01, 2023, 05:48:17 PM »
Israel had persecuted the prophets and killed those who showed the coming of the Messiah to earth, and they were the betrayers and murderers then of the Just One.
First of all, the Romans killed Jesus, not the Jews. Secondly, "Israel" didn't do anything, the people beseeching Pilate did, which was not all of Israel. Third, Jesus's whole mission was to die. Fourth, Romans 11:
The heathen is Pilate, ( Rome) the people are Israel. Acts 4:25 Who by the mouth of thy servant David hast said, Why did the heathen rage, and the people imagine vain things? 26 The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ. 27 For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together,
11
« on: March 01, 2023, 05:45:44 PM »
The Jews went into exile ( like a prison) for their own iniquity and trespass against the Lord.
He was despised and rejected by mankind,
a man of suffering, and familiar with pain.
Like one from whom people hide their faces
he was despised, and we held him in low esteem.
Surely he took up our pain
and bore our suffering,
yet we considered him punished by God,
stricken by him, and afflicted.
Matthew 21:33 Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country: 34 And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it. 35 And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another. 36 Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise. 37 But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son. 38 But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance. 39 And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him. 40 When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen? 41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons. 42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes? 43 Therefore say I unto you, THE KINGDOM OF GOD SHALL BE TAKEN FROM YOU, AND GIVEN TO A NATION BRINGING FORTH THE FRUIT THEREOF.
12
« on: March 01, 2023, 05:42:39 PM »
The Jews went into exile ( like a prison) for their own iniquity and trespass against the Lord.
He was despised and rejected by mankind,
a man of suffering, and familiar with pain.
Like one from whom people hide their faces
he was despised, and we held him in low esteem.
Surely he took up our pain
and bore our suffering,
yet we considered him punished by God,
stricken by him, and afflicted.
Acts 28:25 And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers, 26 Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive: 27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. 28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.
13
« on: March 01, 2023, 05:41:10 PM »
It is testimony that many follow the subtle ways of the devil, and that they profess Christ but deny Him by being as told: ( WITH FEIGNED WORDS)
LOL Mathew 7 is feigned words now? Get outta here.
How is it judging others, by showing the judgement of God ? God has testified to us, how many deny him, it is not acknowledgment of Gods testimonies to state nobody on a forum denies him.
14
« on: March 01, 2023, 05:39:08 PM »
Israel had persecuted the prophets and killed those who showed the coming of the Messiah to earth, and they were the betrayers and murderers then of the Just One. (they also then killed Stephen, it is understood how that same experience of persecution came to the Jews, see where it was even required by them.)
Matthew 27:24 When Pilate saw that he could prevail nothing, but that rather a tumult was made, he took water, and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, I am innocent of the blood of this just person: see ye to it.
25 Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children.
Acts 7:52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:
15
« on: March 01, 2023, 05:32:35 PM »
Sentence was given, on the house of Israel from the Lord, into their enemies lands ( prison) until sent for in 1947 to return to the land of Israel.
The ones who did evil to the Jews were in iniquity and trespass, because all men are the same either good or evil.
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