BibleForums Christian Message Board

Quote from: Taylor on July 24, 2021, 12:46:08 PM

Which brings up yet another question I have.   If God gave mankind free will, why did God "harden the hearts" of some throughout history?   

He disallowed that "free will" at times.

God hardens the hearts of people just by being who he is. For instance, he hardened Pharaohs heart. How much hardening did God do by sending a nobody (Moses) with a demand to one of the most powerful men on earth? That king couldn't stand being told what to do by anybody.

Quote from: Taylor on July 24, 2021, 12:33:53 PM

Not all of them were destroyed in the flood.  The Old Testament refers to the Anakites and other peoples that descended from Nephilim.   A common physical characteristic was their greater size and height, hence... the "giants".   The Israelites were commanded by God to destroy entire cities.... men, women, children and animals.   Why do you think that is?

Or is that what the spies said, out of fear, having not been around during the time of Noah to see what the Nephilim actually looked like? The people are strong! The land devours everyone!! THERE ARE NEPHILIM!!!

Let's not ignore that:

- Angels are an entirely different species than humans
- There's no reason to think that angels find human beings sexually attractive
- There's no reason to think that angels are sexual beings at all
- There's no reason to think that even if angels are sexual, that they are genetically compatible with humans (being a different species and all)
- There's no reason to think that angels can transmogrify themselves into human males
- There's no reason to think that these fallen angels are master geneticists that could produce supercharged sperm resulting in giant offspring
- There's every reason to question how the idea of transgender angels impacts on the notion of humans as being made in the image of God.

And on, and on, and on. The spies of Numbers 13 were plain old cowards looking for excuses.

(And no, none of this is against the OT. What it's against are poor readings of the OT.)

Quote from: Taylor on July 24, 2021, 12:33:53 PM

No, they're not anything like me, my family, friends and/or neighbors.   They are evil beings doing evil deeds.   God gives us the power of discernment (if you pray for it).   Discerning between good and evil is crucial.... especially in these 'last' days.

Have you read any books like 'Ordinary Men' (Browning)? The point isn't that they're like you, it's that you're just as capable of the evil around you as anyone else is. So it's no big mystery who the evil people are. Beyond all the hardened criminals and serial killers and whatever else, it's normal, everyday people.

Quote from: Slug1 on July 19, 2021, 10:49:17 AM

Would value input because just this past weekend I was reading some posts (elsewhere), where the focus of the discussion is that, "ALL IS" God's ordained will.

I believe that everything that happens in our world, the good and the bad, are all God's will. Having said that, God also gives us the opportunity to make choices.

So let's look at examples in the bible.

A question had been asked by the rabbis. Why did God punish the Egyptians for enslaving the Hebrews? Didn't God tell Abraham that his descendants would be enslaved for 400 years? Weren't the Egyptians carrying out God's will? Maybe God should have rewarded them instead of punishing them?

So the answer is very simple. God simply told Abraham that his descendants would be slaves. God didn't say where or by whom. The Egyptians stepped up and volunteered to do it. In other words, they chose themselves to be the carrying out a bad mission. And for choosing to do a bad mission, they were punished.

Another example may be teased out of the book of Esther. The wicked Haman has manipulated the Persian king into a decree for the annihilation the Jews. The Jewish orphan Esther wins a beauty contest and is the queen. Her uncle, Mordechai, approaches her and tells her to act and save the Jews, even though by doing so she may imperil herself. He uses very deliberate language: “Do not think that because you are in the king’s house you alone of all the Jews will escape. For if you remain silent at this time, relief and deliverance for the Jews will arise from another place, but you and your father’s family will perish. And who knows but that you have come to your royal position for such a time as this?”

Mordechai is saying two separate things here: Firstly, that if it's God's will that the Jews be saved, they will be saved regardless. But if it's God's will that the Jews be saved, why not do your part in carrying out His will? Why not, in other words, choose yourself for a good mission? And secondly, nothing is by chance. God placed you in the palace so that you might have the opportunity to carry out His will.

This line of thinking lends itself to modern day examples as well. I do not doubt that the Holocaust was God's will, for whatever unfathomable reasons He had "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways" (Isaiah 55). But the German people chose themselves for a horrible mission, and so deserve punishment. Similarly, the modern day state of Israel is powerful thanks in part to American support. And so our country chose itself for a good mission and is the recipient of Genesis 12:3.

It even factors into the minor decisions in our life. Giving charity, even the smallest amount, choses us for a good mission. If it is God's will that the person have that help, someone will give it to them. Why not have that someone be you?

No. The Nephilim - who were not transgender transspecies fallen angels - were destroyed in the flood.

They're people just like you, your friends, your neighbours, and your family. If you think there's a strong divide, a 'you' vs 'them' mentality, then you aren't being honest with yourself.

Nephilim may simply refer to very large people. In a race featuring larger than average sizes, they can be referred to as Nephilim, as compared with other races.

Some literature in the Early Church indicated it was believed that the term in Genesis referred to fallen angels. That may have been believed, as such.

However, it was written that they had sexual relations with people, indicating to me that these were just large men--not angels. I don't believe angels and people can procreate or have sexual relations.

Quote from: Taylor on July 24, 2021, 11:34:13 AM

I don't think it is Christians that want to separate religion from the State.  I think it's the radical leftists/communists, anti-Christians and tyrannical false religions like Islamists.

Nope, there are plenty of Christians who aren't in favour of mixing religion and the state.