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I can justify the context however I like. You're quoting single verses directly below this and ignoring the entire surrounding chapter. Where's your context?

There is no context here whatsoever.

I’m not ignoring the context. I clearly stated previously in post #29 that the context was deliverance from an enemy or adversary.

He knew the outcome of his actions were in God's hands and not his own. No place does the bible say that "he couldn't deliver himself".

That seems like a contradictory statement. Are you saying the outcome was in God's hands or that David could have delivered himself without God?

Again, just because it uses a word doesn't make it a topic of significance. I've been here a long, long time. Standard Christian theology as has been taught to me is that all our deeds are meaningless and only faith saves. In other words, the topic of the NT is "salvation". By way of contrast, the OT says that our actions are extremely consequential, and God expects us to abide by His covenant with us by sanctifying ourselves. I cited an entire chapter, above.

There’s a lot of nuance here that you’re not acknowledging.

James 2:17-18 says: In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.
But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”
Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds.

Of course everyone sins. God created us imperfectly. That doesn't mean that we need "salvation" in the Christian sense. God doesn't expect perfection from us. He expects us to reach our own individual potential, which is different for each person.

Yes, everyone sins, and that sin separates us from God.
Isaiah 59:2 But your wrongdoings have caused a separation between you and your God, And your sins have hidden His face from you so that He does not hear.

Because of sin we need God deliverance as we can’t deliver ourselves since all our righteous deeds are filthy rags.
Isaiah 64:6 For all of us have become like one who is unclean, And all our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment; And all of us wither like a leaf, And our wrongdoings, like the wind, take us away.

In what way is it "flimsy"? The Jews at Sinai were only just receiving the bible. They didn't have the works of the prophets. How could they know and be guided by words they never heard and concepts they did not know?

It’s flimsy because you are trying to continue the conversation in limitation to only what they received at Sinai. God’s revelation to the nation was not complete and there was more to unfold. The more to unfold was Isaiah 53 as I bought up.

First of all, king David lives hundreds of years after the bible was written. The religion is already established according to the laws of the first 5 books of the bible. And it's about sanctification. "Be holy".

In that case David writings in Psalms would be falling in line with the same accusation you made of the NT compared to the OT.

Second of all, he lead a very eventful life. He battled the mighty Goliath. He was on the run from king Saul. He fought in wars. When he speaks of "salvation" he very clearly means in the physical sense: God saving his skin, not letting him fall into his enemies hands in battle. For example, 2 Samuel 24:14 David answered Gad, “I have great anxiety. Please, let us fall into the LORD's hands because His mercies are great, but don't let me fall into human hands.” Notice that king Saul commits suicide rather than fall to his enemies tender mercies.

Yep. We agree on that context.

Others, like Jacob, Moses, Hannah, Job, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Jonah, Habakkuk...in the OT spoke of these things as well.

You're really going to have to provide verses instead of throwing names out.

Challenge accepted. How many do you need? One for each?

The context of those is deliverance, salvation from an enemy or adversary. Clearly they could not deliver themselves in their own energy. They sought out God because that was a work that could only come from God.

This is not so. They did what they had to do and only then prayed for divine assistance.

Yes, they did everything they could and it wasn’t enough for deliverance.

That's no different in NT. The NT identifies sin as an enemy.

That's because the NT is about "salvation". But it's a different topic than the OT.

The NT is about sanctification too

It's an adversary that I can't deliver myself from. It wars within me.

Different topic, but-

Genesis 4:7 sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must rule over it

...And I ask for help as David did in Psalm 119:133
And just like David asked God to cleanse him of his sin in Psalm 51:1-2

Deuteronomy 30:11 Now what I am commanding you today is not too difficult for you or beyond your reach.

Aah! That’s interesting. I’m not going to quickly try to explain that away. Not going to ignore it either as it does make your point. Thanks for giving me something to meditate on.

But my initial thoughts are who is Isaiah 53 speaking of and how does that fit in your understanding of Deuteronomy 30:11?

I think if we can work through what I see is the main problem, that being here in the States as abortion on demand. Abortion because a child is unwanted or inconvenient...etc. The other instances fall in a minority of cases category. A majority view of US citizens seem to agree with this position.

Quote from: Kingfisher on May 06, 2022, 08:46:42 AM

Where the law is controversial (But makes the law difficult to challenge) is that it allows private citizens to sue anyone who performs an abortion or “aids and abets” a procedure.

How does that even work, practically? Like, who is doing the suing, and who is going to tell Mielke?

It's too early for me to tell how it's going to work. I'm not for abortion but I don't really support the deputizing of citizens in this manner. Seems like a Wild West approach of litigation.

Praying for you now and will continue Wolfman

If you don't read the newspaper you're uninformed. If you do read it you're misinformed. - Denzel Washington

Great idea!

Ships don’t sink because of the water around them; ships sink because of the water that gets in them. Don’t let what’s happening around you get inside you and weigh you down. – Author unknown

God can’t give us peace and happiness apart from himself because there is no such thing. – C.S. Lewis

The enemy wants to define you by your scars. Jesus wants to define you by His. – Louie Giglio