BibleForums Christian Message Board
Bible Talk => Apologetics => Topic started by: PonderPoints on July 17, 2026, 01:17:46 PM
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{ snip snip snip you didn't follow up snip snip snip }
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I didn’t know God needed another manmade argument…
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I didn’t know God needed another manmade argument…
But is that "substantive criticism"? Why this place for substantive criticism?
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It’s the most mental calories I can expend…
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It’s the most mental calories I can expend…
But dude there is an issue with epiphenomenalism !!
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It’s the most mental calories I can expend…
But dude there is an issue with epiphenomenalism !!
27 points in. Scrabble and at least 2 triple words…
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The nature of consciousness Involves the recognition of itself. And rather than being an argument for the existence of God, human consciousness betrays the culpability of a race existing in defiance of truth or in darkness, scrambling for evidence.
An absurdity.
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Scripture speaks clearly and Psalm 19:1 e.g., denotes the summation of evidence available to man in his current state, and He is held accountable and without excuse for his blindness (Rm 1:20).
Frankly, there are no logical arguments available to man, for or against the existence of God.
The fall of man left him bereft of the intimate insights into the Creator he had previously known.
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But dude there is an issue with epiphenomenalism !!
I'm not even looking this one up.
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I’m looking for substantive criticism: under naturalism, what explains not merely our reports about consciousness but our knowledge that subjective experience exists? Does this support theism, or only identify a gap in a particular naturalistic account?
I don't believe that a proof of God's existence is possible, nor would it be desirable. Human beings are on this earth to express our free will. That is to say, make choices and so determine our ultimate fate. Any generally accepted proof of God's existence would remove our free will and so make our choices irrelevant, which would remove the whole reason we were created in the first place.
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This is my "proof" for God. I need no other. And, yes, I have posted this elsewhere on this site.
How do I know God exists?
How do I know God Exists? I would answer with two words. Two names actually. Walter James Cloud and Caroline Elizabeth Harrison Robbins Cloud. The first was my dad. The second is my wife. I say is even though she has been dead for several years because she is as much a part of my life as she was when she was alive.
Both of these people were incredible gifts to me from a loving God who through them showed me how much He loved me. Dad and I were very close and when he died I didn’t know how I would get through it. But God lifted me up from the miry clay of grief, partly through the healing arms of my wife.
To understand the rest you have to know a bit about Caroline and me. To say that we were not a normal couple would be a gross understatement of monumental proportions. After all, how could we be “normal” considering when we got married I was 36 and she was 72? And right from the start we were so much a part of each other that we read each other’s minds, CONSTANTLY. Not a week went by, and hardly a day, when one of us didn’t say something that caused the other to respond “Get out of my mind.” Caroline was my partner in every sense of the word. A lot of married couples refer to their spouses as “my other half.” Caroline really was.
When Caroline died it was hell. How could it not be? And absolutely NOBODY could understand. How could they? They tried (and I’m glad they did). But I’ve never met anyone even close to our situation.
So how do I know God is real? Simple I’ve been through HELL!!! More than once, in fact. And when I had sunk to the lowest pit of hell, and it was threatening to bury me forever, I looked over and found I was not alone. Christ was there to pick me up, and lift me out, and place me in my loving Father's arms. And He held me in his arms, and cradled me to His chest. And He whispered in my ears that I was His child and He loved me more than I could possibly imagine.
How do I know God is real? HOW COULD I NOT?
David E. Cloud
(5/9/14)
copyright David Cloud 2014 used by permission
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But dude there is an issue with epiphenomenalism !!
I'm not even looking this one up.
It's what the OP is arguing over. Per Stanford, "Epiphenomenalism is the view that mental events are caused by physical events in the brain, but have no effects upon any physical events."
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/epiphenomenalism/
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Thank you for explaining that to me.
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It will be explained whether you want it explained or not!
(https://media0.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExbmdhMTlvazU0a29oZGxrdGZtbTVmODN5azJpNXE2cTVqeWdwNGhtbyZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/A8NNZlVuA1LoY/giphy.gif)
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Ah... There it is!
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Sort of like being married.
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The OP made a single post, and then vanished. Like a thief in the night, as some would say.
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The OP made a single post, and then vanished. Like a thief in the night, as some would say.
Like a neutrino.
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Normally I delete the obvious one-hit wonder cross-posters who are just going for SEO. Should I do the same here?
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No discussion forthcoming.
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Normally I delete the obvious one-hit wonder cross-posters who are just going for SEO. Should I do the same here?
1 vote in favor.
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Well since we're talking about the important matters despite the OP, I have snipped + temp banned. Maybe when / if they check in they'll be more talkative -- comrade.