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Bible Talk => Eschatology => Topic started by: Reddogs on May 17, 2026, 02:19:12 AM
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A Beast in prophecy is identified as a Kingdom which symbolizes a Nation.
Daniel 7:23
Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.
But at the same time this Nation which is demanding worship
Revelation 14:9
And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
And we see what happens who accede to its demands..
Revelation 14:11
And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
And it is pictured as a women on it which in bible prophecy symbolizes a church.
Revelation 17:3-6
3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
5 And upon her forehead was a name written, Mystery, Babylon The Great, The Mother Of Harlots And Abominations Of The Earth.
6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.
This means that the Beast is both political and religious, and we find the following about the Church of Rome.
“No other religious system has [these] two powers, both political and religious.” -(The Godfathers, pg.3 Dr. Alberto Rivera)
"The Pope State, a unique entity within the heart of Rome, stands as a symbol of spiritual authority and historical significance. Encompassing the Vatican City, this independent city-state serves not only as the papal residence but also as a focal point for millions of Catholics worldwide."The Role of the Pope in Vatican City: A Political Perspective | Actualizado February 2025
"Vatican City, the world’s smallest independent state, holds a profound significance that extends far beyond its geographical size. Nestled within the city of Rome, Italy, this sovereign entity serves as the spiritual and administrative center of the Roman Catholic Church."Significance of Vatican City - Catholicism
“The Vatican is a government itself. It is a political state of which every Roman Catholic becomes a member at the time of baptism… Their allegiance should be to Rome first, then to the country in which they were born.” -Double-Cross, pg. 29
"Vatican City was established as an independent state in the year 1929 by the Lateran Treaty."The Vatican's government
"Vatican City is the smallest state in the world, measuring only 108 acres, and is located entirely within the city of Rome.'" 14 New Catholic Encyclopedia 555 (1981 edition).
"The Vatican City, often simply referred to as the Vatican, is the smallest independent city-state in the world, both in terms of area and population. Enclaved within the city of Rome, it stands out as a sovereign state that operates independently from Italy. The Vatican is the spiritual and administrative headquarters of the Roman Catholic Church, serving as the residence of the Pope..."Why Is The Vatican Not Part Of Italy? A Historical And Political Explanation
The Beast of Revelation is clearly a Political and Religious entity and we see who it is if we discern what Gods Word gives us.
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Just a heads up...
Very few people reading this forum really have any interest in the book of Speculations.
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A Beast in prophecy is identified as a Kingdom which symbolizes a Nation.
Daniel 7:23
Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.
I think you're missing a lot of the context here.
Daniel's audience isn't the whole world, it's ancient Israel. All of the talk of the beasts only makes sense in the context of what they did to Israel. To wit-
The first beast is Babylon, who destroyed king Solomon's temple in Jerusalem.
The second beast is Persia, who conquered the Babylonians and freed Judea.
The third is Greece, who conquered Persia and made Judea a vassal state.
The fourth is Rome, who conquered Greece and made Judea a Roman province, ultimately conquering the state and destroying the temple (again).
The reason that the fourth beast is considered so powerful and terrifying is because the exile caused by the Roman conquest is still ongoing (the modern state of Israel in my opinion is the beginning of the end of the exile, but not a complete end, yet).
This universalizing of the book of Daniel is ahistorical and, in my opinion, incorrect. It's not about Christians or the Catholic/Protestant split or the church. It all pertains to what would be understood by the original listeners, and none of this additional material could possibly apply.
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A Beast in prophecy is identified as a Kingdom which symbolizes a Nation.
Daniel 7:23
Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.
I think you're missing a lot of the context here.
. . .
This universalizing of the book of Daniel is ahistorical and, in my opinion, incorrect. It's not about Christians or the Catholic/Protestant split or the church. It all pertains to what would be understood by the original listeners, and none of this additional material could possibly apply.
Oy vey!!!!
And Amen.
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What about the snake in the garden of Eden. Many people say it was the devil. Others say it was possessed by the devil. But I always wondered why God would punish the snake to go on its belly if it wasn't at fault.
Just out of curiosity has anyone seen such a thing in a dream? Some kind of monstrosity, similar as described by these prophets? Or have you ever seen something in real life such as these?
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What about the snake in the garden of Eden.
Snake! Oh no! It's a snake!
Many people say it was the devil. Others say it was possessed by the devil.
The bible tells us exactly what the snake was. An animal. Gen 3:1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made.
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Mushroom?
I also find it interesting that Moses and Aaron threw down his staff, by the commandment of the Lord, in Egypt and it became a snake.
Exodus 7:10
And Moses and Aaron went in unto Pharaoh, and they did so as the LORD had commanded: and Aaron cast down his rod before Pharaoh, and before his servants, and it became a serpent.
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Mushroom?
Mushrooms can be tasty. Or give you funny dreams. Or be lethal.
I also find it interesting that Moses and Aaron threw down his staff, by the commandment of the Lord, in Egypt and it became a snake.
Maybe it's because snakes and staves are of a similar size and shape?
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Mushroom?
Mushrooms can be tasty. Or give you funny dreams. Or be lethal.
I also find it interesting that Moses and Aaron threw down his staff, by the commandment of the Lord, in Egypt and it became a snake.
Maybe it's because snakes and staves are of a similar size and shape?
Or because the snake — especially the asp and the cobra— were revered in Egyptian worship
Let’s use silly logic for $500
If the image of the snake is evil, why did God command Moses to a a bronze snake to put on a staff as a means of deliverance and healing from a plague of snakes?
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Or because the snake — especially the asparagus and the cobra— were revered in Egyptian worship
And today I learned something new. Thank you, RK.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wadjet
If the image of the snake is evil, why did God command Moses to a a bronze snake to put on a staff as a means of deliverance and healing from a plague of snakes?
What's interesting is that the serpent on a staff as a symbol of healing also existed, or perhaps spread to, other cultures in the region at the time. And has since become a feature in western civ.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rod_of_Asclepius
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Or because the snake — especially the asparagus and the cobra— were revered in Egyptian worship
And today I learned something new. Thank you, RK.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wadjet
If the image of the snake is evil, why did God command Moses to a a bronze snake to put on a staff as a means of deliverance and healing from a plague of snakes?
What's interesting is that the serpent on a staff as a symbol of healing also existed, or perhaps spread to, other cultures in the region at the time. And has since become a feature in western civ.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rod_of_Asclepius
“Asparagus”…. Good grief…. That’s on me..Proof of the evil of AI spell check and auto insert, I’m certain
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“Asparagus”…. Good grief…. That’s on me..Proof of the evil of AI spell check and auto insert, I’m certain
Tasty though. Especially when peeled and in olive oil and salt.
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Maybe it's because snakes and staves are of a similar size and shape?
Maybe. But what I found more intriguing is how there was one in the garden also and that it was also talking. Go figure?
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Maybe. But what I found more intriguing is how there was one in the garden also and that it was also talking.
The staves to snakes in Exodus don't talk. So where's the connection?
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Maybe. But what I found more intriguing is how there was one in the garden also and that it was also talking.
The staves to snakes in Exodus don't talk. So where's the connection?
Just that there are many creatures about. But serpents where on both occasions used in the bible. There was a talking one in the garden, and there was one transforming from wood to itself by the commandment of The Lord in Egypt. I'm guessing those little details don't strike many as obvious. Instead, they are overlooked like so many things.
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Just that there are many creatures about. But serpents where on both occasions used in the bible. There was a talking one in the garden, and there was one transforming from wood to itself by the commandment of The Lord in Egypt. I'm guessing those little details don't strike many as obvious. Instead, they are overlooked like so many things.
But but you haven't even explained what is being overlooked. You found two seemingly unrelated verses in the bible, announced some sort of connection, without telling us what it is. Is it left as an exercise for the reader?
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Just that there are many creatures about. But serpents where on both occasions used in the bible. There was a talking one in the garden, and there was one transforming from wood to itself by the commandment of The Lord in Egypt. I'm guessing those little details don't strike many as obvious. Instead, they are overlooked like so many things.
But but you haven't even explained what is being overlooked. You found two seemingly unrelated verses in the bible, announced some sort of connection, without telling us what it is. Is it left as an exercise for the reader?
I'm suggesting that perhaps it is indeed an exercise for the reader. For who can say that The Lord does not know where Adam is when The Lord called to him? Or who can say that there is any creature in his garden that he knows not of? I don't assume it, but I did find it intriguing.
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I'm suggesting that perhaps it is indeed an exercise for the reader.
Nah, too much thinking for me. :o
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I'm suggesting that perhaps it is indeed an exercise for the reader.
Nah, too much thinking for me. :o
Your probably in the right.