BibleForums Christian Message Board
General Category => In General => Topic started by: Sojourner on August 05, 2025, 03:51:19 PM
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Hamas made its implacable hatred clear by its charter provision that denies Israel's right to exist. Following its election and violent conflict with Fatah, it seized control and has not ceased harassing Israel with frequent rocket attacks and other acts of violence for the past 18 years. The cowardly attack on Oct 7 was a declaration of war to which Israel has responded decisively and with resolve. Whereas Gaza will ultimately continue to be a base of operations launched against Israel, Netanyahu's decision to re-occupy the area is sound and necessary. It essentially amounts to taking back control of land won in the Six Day War, but forfeited in 2005 for the sake of expediency.
Sadly, instead of funding Hamas' terrorist attacks, Iran could have invested money to facilitate the infrastructure and economic stability that would empower the Palestinians to better themselves. In fact, wealthy Arab nations could accommodate the Palestinians if they actually cared about them. (If there were a sincere commitment to peaceful co-existence that fostered peace, I'm sure the Israelis themselves would help). Yet, Hamas--duly elected by a majority, is in the driver's seat, and those who might co-exist with Israel if given a chance, are traveling companions with those who refuse to do so, and partakers of those consequences.
At the end of the day, I believe the current circumstances are interwoven into the tapestry of God's grand design, and will ultimately serve His will and purpose, despite any intervening stressful situations. Prophecy affirms that God's people are promised a glorious destination--though the journey there may be fraught with unpleasantness. It's a shame that so many useful idiots who reject the Bible are deceived into taking the wrong side. In the movie "Gladiator," Maximus makes a statement that emphasizes the lasting impact of our actions and choices: "What we do in life echoes in eternity."
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The problem is that Hamas believes that it is their religious obligation to destroy Israel via Jihad, and once that is accomplished, murder every Jew in the world. They're not shy, they put it in their charter. No middle ground is therefore possible. Their terms for a cease fire have become more and more ridiculous as the war goes on: They now want every single Palestinian terrorist freed from Israeli prisons, they want Israel to evacuate Gaza completely, they want the blockade ended, they want international guarantees that Israel cannot resume the war; in exchange for all this, they are willing to free only half of the Israeli hostages that they hold. So it seems that the only way forward is to destroy them utterly.
In my opinion, huge complication: On the Israel side we have Benjamin Netanyahu as the prime minister. He is a great peacetime leader who is directly responsible for Israel's economic boom by cutting taxes and regulations. Unfortunately he has been in office so long that he has become a purely political creature. This manifests itself by him having a very low risk tolerance. So he talks about "unleashing hell in Gaza" but he doesn't actually do it.
He is also a micromanager. He should have instructed the IDF to draw up plans for the overthrow of Hamas rule in Gaza and let them do it. Instead he meddles in the smallest details of the army's plans. It's not necessary and it's bad leadership; recruit able subordinates and trust them to do their job.
I do not honestly believe that the IDF will fully occupy Gaza or topple Hamas. I would be delighted to be wrong.
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Looks like the Swedes are double talking and backtracking…
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yeah, worked like a charm last time.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, even if a full reoccupation results in an outcome that could meaningfully be described as 'the complete destruction of Hamas' the civilian casualties, displacement and destruction of infrastructure (that wasn't even great to start, and is hanging on by a thread now) will undoubtedly just create Hamas 2 : Electric boogaloo unless Israel pulls off the all time greatest reconstruction, repopulation and long term peace plan ever concaved and they'll likely have to do it without a great deal if any international support, with a great deal of earnest and dishonest criticism.
To me, This isn't even kicking the can down the road (which I guess lots of folks are fine with), its kicking a flaming bag of wet dog....poop with a steel toed boot. I know I know, 'but we didn't poop in the bag or set it on fire, the dog did!" who can blame you for kicking it off your porch?
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At the end of the day, I believe the current circumstances are interwoven into the tapestry of God's grand design, and will ultimately serve His will and purpose, despite any intervening stressful situations. Prophecy affirms that God's people are promised a glorious destination--though the journey there may be fraught with unpleasantness.
This is of course true and I could not have said it better myself. We know how the story ends.
This past Sunday was the 9th of the Hebrew month of Av, when both Temples were destroyed, the first by the Babylonians in 586BCE and the second by the Romans in the year 70.
This Sabbath is called the "Sabbath of consolation", and we read from Isaiah chapter 40, which begins-
Comfort, comfort my people,
says your God.
Speak tenderly to Jerusalem,
and proclaim to her
that her hard service has been completed,
that her sin has been paid for,
that she has received from the Lord’s hand
double for all her sins.
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...
Terrorist supporter says what?
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Terrorist supporter says what?
Oh i'll repeat it. Perhaps try reading more slowly and out loud, that usually helps children:
yeah, worked like a charm last time.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, even if a full reoccupation results in an outcome that could meaningfully be described as 'the complete destruction of Hamas' the civilian casualties, displacement and destruction of infrastructure (that wasn't even great to start, and is hanging on by a thread now) will undoubtedly just create Hamas 2 : Electric boogaloo unless Israel pulls off the all time greatest reconstruction, repopulation and long term peace plan ever concaved and they'll likely have to do it without a great deal if any international support, with a great deal of earnest and dishonest criticism.
To me, This isn't even kicking the can down the road (which I guess lots of folks are fine with), its kicking a flaming bag of wet dog....poop with a steel toed boot. I know I know, 'but we didn't poop in the bag or set it on fire, the dog did!" who can blame you for kicking it off your porch?
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Oh i'll repeat it. Perhaps try reading more slowly and out loud, that usually helps children:
Nazi supporter says what?
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Nazi supporter says what?
Still didn't see it? I said:
yeah, worked like a charm last time.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, even if a full reoccupation results in an outcome that could meaningfully be described as 'the complete destruction of Hamas' the civilian casualties, displacement and destruction of infrastructure (that wasn't even great to start, and is hanging on by a thread now) will undoubtedly just create Hamas 2 : Electric boogaloo unless Israel pulls off the all time greatest reconstruction, repopulation and long term peace plan ever concaved and they'll likely have to do it without a great deal if any international support, with a great deal of earnest and dishonest criticism.
To me, This isn't even kicking the can down the road (which I guess lots of folks are fine with), its kicking a flaming bag of wet dog....poop with a steel toed boot. I know I know, 'but we didn't poop in the bag or set it on fire, the dog did!" who can blame you for kicking it off your porch?
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Still didn't see it? I said:
I'm sorry, I don't read messages from people who support genocidal groups.
Have a nice life.
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Still didn't see it? I said:
I'm sorry, I don't read messages from people who support genocidal groups.
Have a nice life.
Man, you must have a tough time reading the bible then. I wonder how you rationalize all that genocide. I'd say you have a nuanced view of biblical genocide, but like, I know you reject nuance as the domain of useful idiots.
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Man, you must have a tough time reading the bible then. I wonder how you rationalize all that genocide. I'd say you have a nuanced view of biblical genocide, but like, I know you reject nuance as the domain of useful idiots.
Have you ever given any thought as to WHY God wanted to wipe out certain people?
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Hamas made its implacable hatred clear by its charter provision that denies Israel's right to exist. Following its election and violent conflict with Fatah, it seized control and has not ceased harassing Israel with frequent rocket attacks and other acts of violence for the past 18 years. The cowardly attack on Oct 7 was a declaration of war to which Israel has responded decisively and with resolve. Whereas Gaza will ultimately continue to be a base of operations launched against Israel, Netanyahu's decision to re-occupy the area is sound and necessary. It essentially amounts to taking back control of land won in the Six Day War, but forfeited in 2005 for the sake of expediency.
Sadly, instead of funding Hamas' terrorist attacks, Iran could have invested money to facilitate the infrastructure and economic stability that would empower the Palestinians to better themselves. In fact, wealthy Arab nations could accommodate the Palestinians if they actually cared about them. (If there were a sincere commitment to peaceful co-existence that fostered peace, I'm sure the Israelis themselves would help). Yet, Hamas--duly elected by a majority, is in the driver's seat, and those who might co-exist with Israel if given a chance, are traveling companions with those who refuse to do so, and partakers of those consequences.
At the end of the day, I believe the current circumstances are interwoven into the tapestry of God's grand design, and will ultimately serve His will and purpose, despite any intervening stressful situations. Prophecy affirms that God's people are promised a glorious destination--though the journey there may be fraught with unpleasantness. It's a shame that so many useful idiots who reject the Bible are deceived into taking the wrong side. In the movie "Gladiator," Maximus makes a statement that emphasizes the lasting impact of our actions and choices: "What we do in life echoes in eternity."
It's very sad that Israel has little support in the international community. They simply cannot understand that a "two state" solution is suicide for Israel. In fact, it's a death kneel for the entire earth:
Joel 3:2 I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land.
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Man, you must have a tough time reading the bible then. I wonder how you rationalize all that genocide. I'd say you have a nuanced view of biblical genocide, but like, I know you reject nuance as the domain of useful idiots.
Have you ever given any thought as to WHY God wanted to wipe out certain people?
Of course I have, it is integral to my point. Fenris was attempting to paint me as some kind of grand supporter of genocide because I think that its worth discovering and acknowledging that there are antecedents, and motives and factors that provide a fuller picture of pretty much any topic. I've had the discussion about why God chose genocide enough times that I could likely predict every reason why you believe it is not only defensible, but just. But that is truly beside the point, I'm highlighting the fact that honestly acknowledging that there are 'whys' at all, is not the same thing as excusing much less agreeing with or supporting something. Case in point, I know the 'why's' of God and genocide (or at least a bunch of the arguments) and still I do not believe it excuses God for genocide, but you probably do.
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Oscar, if you worked for a company and disagreed with the way the boss did certain things, that would be fine. But if you were to dispute and challenge the propriety of his actions, that's a different matter. The boss does as he pleases with what belongs to him, whether you like it or not, and your insubordination would more than likely result in the termination of your employment. In a similar way, as the sovereign Creator and Supreme Being, God owns the universe and everything in it--including mankind, who was created to serve Him without question. He does not need to justify Himself to you or anyone else. He has a valid reason for everything He does, whether we understand the reasoning or not, and people are free to serve and obey Him or not. But know that either way, you will one day stand before him in judgment, at which time your eternal destination will be determined. Like it or not.
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Oscar, if you worked for a company and disagreed with the way the boss did certain things, that would be fine. But if you were to dispute and challenge the propriety of his actions, that's a different matter. The boss does as he pleases with what belongs to him, whether you like it or not, and your insubordination would more than likely result in the termination of your employment. In a similar way, as the sovereign Creator and Supreme Being, God owns the universe and everything in it--including mankind, who was created to serve Him without question. He does not need to justify Himself to you or anyone else. He has a valid reason for everything He does, whether we understand the reasoning or not, and people are free to serve and obey Him or not. But know that either way, you will one day stand before him in judgment, at which time your eternal destination will be determined. Like it or not.
I already understand the rationale and the context, and i'm not even trying to debate whether or not the genocide that God ordered and the Israelites supported and heeded was good or bad. That is all beside the point.
Lets try it this way. Do you have a problem with any of the following points:
-God ordered genocide in the bible and the Israelites more or less supported and heeded those orders. This is recorded in the bible.
-There is a context under which God ordered genocide (that is God's sovereignty, the behaviors of the genocidees and so on)
-If a person ignores that context then they cannot understand the genocide that God ordered in the bible. IOW ignoring the context is to fail to apprehend the totality of the genocide that God ordered in the bible.
-Understanding the context of the genocide that God ordered does not mean that you support or repudiate the genocide that God ordered in the bible or genocide in general. It is not about agreement on ethics or morality, it is about agreeing that we are pointing to the same collection of events.
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Let's all take a break as Tim and I do some reading.