BibleForums Christian Message Board
Bible Talk => Just Bible => Topic started by: ProDeo on August 07, 2024, 01:29:34 AM
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1 Chronicles 21 and 2 Samuel 24 tell the same story about David's Census Brings Pestilence, the opening verse of both chapters contradict.
1 Chronicles 21:1 - Then Satan stood against Israel and incited David to number Israel.
2 Sam 24:1 - Again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he incited David against them, saying, “Go, number Israel and Judah.”
Only one of them can be true, I guess 2 Samuel is in error because in 2 Samuel David was obedient to the task God ordered and then God punished him for doing so.
So how do we reconcile?
Human failure making copies of the original?
I guess in those days without machines originals were copied sentence by sentence by scribes for distribution among the people of Israel.
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Soooooo again if Satan is God's loyal servant, there is no contradiction at all.
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That's pretty dubious.
In 2 Samuel God incited David and obedient David got punished for that?!
Really?
On the contrary 1 Chronicles makes sense, David without consulting God (or the prophet) starts to number Israel.
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Soooooo again if Satan is God's loyal servant, there is no contradiction at all.
I thought "the" satan was a metaphor for man's inclination towards evil (yetzer hara). How does that equate to being a loyal servant of God? The metaphor idea may conform with most references to satan in the tanakh, but in Job and Zechariah 3 he seems to be an individual with free will at odds with the Lord.
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2 Sam 24:1 - Again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he incited David against them, saying, “Go, number Israel and Judah.”
In some lexicons dealing with the wording/terms utilized by the writer of these (this) verse, detail that "it" or וַיָּ֨סֶת (vai·ya·set), incited David. Meaning, God's anger is what led to David's reaction. What "compelled" David to act as such, is the question. God or a temptation from satan? Sure seems God is allowing (permissive will) the sin, not ordering (sovereign will) the sin.
Maybe Fenris can confirm this concerning the use of "it" meaning, the anger?
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That's pretty dubious.
In 2 Samuel God incited David and obedient David got punished for that?!
Really?
I'm not understanding the problem here.
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I thought "the" satan was a metaphor for man's inclination towards evil (yetzer hara). How does that equate to being a loyal servant of God?
"The" Satan is an angel of God who does as God wishes. This is what we can all the "external temptation". This is separate from our own "internal" urges, what Jews would call the "Yetzer Harah".
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In some lexicons dealing with the wording/terms utilized by the writer of these (this) verse, detail that "it" or וַיָּ֨סֶת (vai·ya·set), incited David.
The word is Strongs 5496. It means something along the lines of entice/persuade/incite. It doesn't mean "order" or "compel". God, or God acting through Satan, enticed David to do something considered wrong, counting the Jews. His captain Joab doesn't want to do it and asks David why he would do such a thing? But David has it done regardless. After the fact David knows he did something wrong and confesses so to God : "I have sinned greatly in what I have done".
God tests and entices us, because life is a test. And what we do and how we respond is all part of that test. David's greatness doesn't come from a perfect life, because he was very human. But he has the amazing ability to realize his mistakes and beg forgiveness for them. And that is something that we can all learn from and emulate.
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1 Chronicles 21 and 2 Samuel 24 tell the same story about David's Census Brings Pestilence, the opening verse of both chapters contradict.
1 Chronicles 21:1 - Then Satan stood against Israel and incited David to number Israel.
2 Sam 24:1 - Again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he incited David against them, saying, “Go, number Israel and Judah.”
Only one of them can be true, I guess 2 Samuel is in error because in 2 Samuel David was obedient to the task God ordered and then God punished him for doing so.
So how do we reconcile?
Human failure making copies of the original?
I guess in those days without machines originals were copied sentence by sentence by scribes for distribution among the people of Israel.
As Fenris said, I think God used satan as a tool, so in a certain sense, they were both responsable.