BibleForums Christian Message Board
Other Categories => Controversial Issues => Topic started by: IMINXTC on April 04, 2022, 11:43:46 AM
-
I'm really wondering how much of a battle awaits the believer who will be increasingly pressured toward disabling the constitutional democratic system, as we know it, in favor of a religion themed autocracy. I think there are many who will jump on that train.
-
Do you think such a thing is possible in the present US government system?
-
Who knows?
Although our system of government is intentionally set up to protect the interest of minority religions, and free expression of religion, the present culture has learned to use the power of corporate entities (non-governmental actors) to impose the will of the party/administration in power.
The current iteration of that is the left/progressive/marxist anti-God anti-religious expression tribe; however, it is not difficult to imagine an economic collapse, a huge swing in the polls to a much more radically conservative government, and we've already seen the propensity for some, especially evangelicals, to grasp onto political power in the name of their "faith."
To answer Iminxtc's question, I do see the continued swing to the left as a possibility, and unfortunately, too much of the judiciary is more focused on cultural peace at any cost to take a serious swing at the left. And, as previously mentioned, the government has limited power of the collectivism of major corporations in terms of free speech, free exercise, etc.
"Tolerance" and "acceptance" and "affirmation" are the new codewords for "submit or die"
-
Do you think such a thing is possible in the present US government system?
I doubt it, ultimately, but suspect the division can get to a critical point, particularly in faith circles.
-
I think there are many who will jump on that train.
I had a math teacher in college who told me "Majority doesn't rule. The well organized minority rules. " So I suppose such a thing is possible.
-
I think there are many who will jump on that train.
I had a math teacher in college who told me "Majority doesn't rule. The well organized minority rules. " So I suppose such a thing is possible.
Put like that, there is reason to be concerned.
-
it is not difficult to imagine an economic collapse, a huge swing in the polls to a much more radically conservative government, and we've already seen the propensity for some, especially evangelicals, to grasp onto political power in the name of their "faith."
Emphasis mine.
I'm thinking this is the trend that will likely explode, if it hasn't already. Not sure how much it will affect society at large, but believers will need to make some serious choices.
-
I'm really wondering how much of a battle awaits the believer who will be increasingly pressured toward disabling the constitutional democratic system, as we know it, in favor of a religion themed autocracy. I think there are many who will jump on that train.
I think the West (both North America and Europe) are all slowly trending towards a special kind of benevolent authoritarianism of one kind or another. Both sides are playing identity politics at this point, and while the moralising of political positions used to be a defining feature of politics on the left, it's starting to creep into politics on the right. The right, specifically, is mutating into something other than itself, while the left is 'merely' becoming more of the extreme we've always known it to be. Neither side is willing to practice forgiveness, and alongside the moralising mentioned above, both sides engage in othering. Don't hold the political positions that I do? You're an evil vile creature.
I think the push for theocracy or any religiously grounded autocracy is the twisting of future hope or eschatology generally. This is more benevolent authoritarianism. It's a confusion between Christianity proper and Christianity as the everyday reality of life in the United States (since this is where theocratic pushes generally come from). This is a hard distinction for anyone in any Christian society, and religion isn't the only victim.
There's no hope short of a miracle, and the West will collapse just as it always has. Christians who resist the push of their fellow 'Christians' to engage in politicking will be considered sympathisers, heretics, and so on. They'll be in the position of Maximus, and will be lucky if they only lose their tongues.
Modern Western Christians, by and large, are in the position of Americans in the movie Idiocracy. Do you remember that scene when they're talking about Brawndo having electrolytes (because it has electrolytes because that's what plants need because it has electrolytes)? That may as well be the equivalent of many Christians' theological understanding. We're in a period in the church in the West where generations have been seriously let down by the failure of those who came before to teach them properly. There's been too much emphasis on moral majorities and Schaefferian-esque dancing with political figures.
How is that for cynical? Think I'm being unfair? Just try having a conversation with most Christians about the doctrine of the Trinity, the economy of the God, or concepts like hypostases, etc. Faith these days is dogma masquerading as doctrine. How do you spread the Gospel? Don't worry about that, the culture war needs to be won through political activism.
-
I'll be seriously reading these excellent posts for awhile.
-
it is not difficult to imagine an economic collapse, a huge swing in the polls to a much more radically conservative government, and we've already seen the propensity for some, especially evangelicals, to grasp onto political power in the name of their "faith."
Emphasis mine.
I'm thinking this is the trend that will likely explode, if it hasn't already. Not sure how much it will affect society at large, but believers will need to make some serious choices.
An increasingly leftist government collapsing and being replaced a far right theocracy certainly seems like a terrifyingly possible outcome.
-
Yeah
The pendulum swing to “over correction” is always exacerbated by economic difficulties.
-
So, even as other threads seem to have pointed out, there is a growing mind-set that equates the faith to a system of law-and-order while the Biblically mandated role and essence of the Church is increasingly forgotten or certainly ignored. Talk about a "falling away."
-
There's no hope short of a miracle, and the West will collapse just as it always has. Christians who resist the push of their fellow 'Christians' to engage in politicking will be considered sympathisers, heretics, and so on. They'll be in the position of Maximus, and will be lucky if they only lose their tongues.
You make many pertinent observations in your post, and I'm thinking this is the crux of the issue that has consumed me for several years now, to whatever degree it unfolds.
-
So, even as other threads seem to have pointed out, there is a growing mind-set that equates the faith to a system of law-and-order while the Biblically mandated role and essence of the Church is increasingly forgotten or certainly ignored. Talk about a "falling away."
Your analysis is spot on
-
So, even as other threads seem to have pointed out, there is a growing mind-set that equates the faith to a system of law-and-order while the Biblically mandated role and essence of the Church is increasingly forgotten or certainly ignored. Talk about a "falling away."
And politics plus religion never go well.
-
We're in a period in the church in the West where generations have been seriously let down by the failure of those who came before to teach them properly. There's been too much emphasis on moral majorities and Schaefferian-esque dancing with political figures.
Very sad but so true. Many would gasp at the notion that these movements and popular trends helped to divert the Church (millions of believers, at any rate) away from it's original purpose.
How do you spread the Gospel? Don't worry about that, the culture war needs to be won through political activism.
Zactly!
-
Help me out to understand this thread, are these speculations based on the (growing?) division that is taking place in your country?
-
Help me out to understand this thread, are these speculations based on the (growing?) division that is taking place in your country?
Yeah, that and the collective political statements of so many believers. Believers and churches seem to be the driving force behind so much of the growing social division.
-
Help me out to understand this thread, are these speculations based on the (growing?) division that is taking place in your country?
Yeah, that and the collective political statements of so many believers. Believers and churches seem to be the driving force behind so much of the social division.
I am saying it for years, tear down social media, it's the fuel for division, people are not ready for it.
-
Help me out to understand this thread, are these speculations based on the (growing?) division that is taking place in your country?
Yeah, that and the collective political statements of so many believers. Believers and churches seem to be the driving force behind so much of the social division.
I am saying it for years, tear down social media, it's the fuel for division, people are not ready for it.
Lot of truth in that, no doubt. An alternative might be to educate the public. Good luck on that one,
-
I would settle for educating the Church.
-
Help me out to understand this thread, are these speculations based on the (growing?) division that is taking place in your country?
Canada and the US are becoming increasingly socially divided. In Canada, many parts of the church became conspiratorial about COVID and vaccines, lockdowns, etc. Even otherwise sensible figures within the church have taken to the most obscene views.
Social media is a primary driver of that division as now everyone can live isolated little lives inside algorithmic bubbles. This is symptomatic, though, and a more fundamental issue is the loss of truth in areas like the news and reporting, which has been replaced with agenda. There's always been agenda, it's just that we're now in a time when the 'news' serves its masters. People need to think critically about these things, but most people aren't in a position to do that, or won't. And so, the right hates women, and the left is woke.
-
Where I live, it seems like a lost cause. Folks have already made up their minds: conspiritorial and based on nothing but dark imaginations. Paranoia and hate driven by stereotype and egged on by established preachers.
It's hard to even know where to start.
The aggression is passive but palpable.
-
Where I live, it seems like a lost cause. Folks have already made up their minds: conspiritorial and based on nothing but dark imaginations. Paranoia and hate driven by stereotype and egged on by established preachers.
It's hard to even know where to start.
The aggression is passive but palpable.
I've made up my mind...now don't confuse me with the facts...
-
It's been heartening, of late, to hear several preachers boldly teach the differences between the great commission and these recent trends toward political activism and partisan identity for the body of Christ.
Perhaps this denotes a movement back to the Gospel in many circles.
-
Canada and the US are becoming increasingly socially divided. In Canada, many parts of the church became conspiratorial about COVID and vaccines, lockdowns, etc. Even otherwise sensible figures within the church have taken to the most obscene views.
It's also a strong rural/urban divide on that matter.
Social media is a primary driver of that division as now everyone can live isolated little lives inside algorithmic bubbles. This is symptomatic, though, and a more fundamental issue is the loss of truth in areas like the news and reporting, which has been replaced with agenda. There's always been agenda, it's just that we're now in a time when the 'news' serves its masters. People need to think critically about these things, but most people aren't in a position to do that, or won't. And so, the right hates women, and the left is woke.
Very well stated.