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Bible Talk => Eschatology => Topic started by: greenonions on September 11, 2021, 02:55:20 AM
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The beast from the sea makes an image of the beast from the sea and makes people worship it. I think it is the false prophet in Rev. 16:13; 19:20; and 20:10.
What do you think about the possibility that the beast from the earth is also the harlot called Babylon?
Consider that the beast from the sea exercises all of the authority of the first beast (Rev. 13:12). Similarly, Babylon sits on the beast (Rev. 17:3) and has authority to reign over the kings of the earth (Rev. 17:18).
Moreover, Rev. 14:8-11 mentions the wine of the wrath of Babylon's fornication, and then also talks about wine of the wrath of God related to worshipping the image (which the beast from the sea made everyone worship).
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I wish I had more insight on the "image of the Beast," but I don't. It appears to be symbolic, and pertains to something the Antichrist constructs in Europe to make people choose against true Christianity. "Babylon" is a euphemistic symbol for Rome, since John at the time was under Roman detention. It was easily understood as such by Christians at that time, who had known of the 4 Beasts of Dan 7, the last of which was Rome and the first of which was Babylon.
The Antichrist alliance rides upon the Roman confederation, which is synonymous with present-day Europe. And so, the False Prophet will be, as the Reformers thought, an end-time apostasy of the Catholic Pope. I wouldn't say the Catholic Church is Antichristian presently. But it certainly has a mix within it that is false religion and opposed to true Christianity. At some point, the Catholic Church will have to decide which side of the fence it is on as an organization.
So this false Pope will establish something within its East-West territory to produce worship towards Antichrist and against true Christianity. I don't know what precisely it is, but it probably doesn't matter. If we are on the right side of the fence, we'll know it when we see it. And it will happen with the rise of Antichrist himself, who will consolidate 10 states under his power, presenting an unchallenged superpower on earth.
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I wish I had more insight on the "image of the Beast," but I don't. It appears to be symbolic, and pertains to something the Antichrist constructs in Europe to make people choose against true Christianity. "Babylon" is a euphemistic symbol for Rome, since John at the time was under Roman detention. It was easily understood as such by Christians at that time, who had known of the 4 Beasts of Dan 7, the last of which was Rome and the first of which was Babylon.
The Antichrist alliance rides upon the Roman confederation, which is synonymous with present-day Europe. And so, the False Prophet will be, as the Reformers thought, an end-time apostasy of the Catholic Pope. I wouldn't say the Catholic Church is Antichristian presently. But it certainly has a mix within it that is false religion and opposed to true Christianity. At some point, the Catholic Church will have to decide which side of the fence it is on as an organization.
So this false Pope will establish something within its East-West territory to produce worship towards Antichrist and against true Christianity. I don't know what precisely it is, but it probably doesn't matter. If we are on the right side of the fence, we'll know it when we see it. And it will happen with the rise of Antichrist himself, who will consolidate 10 states under his power, presenting an unchallenged superpower on earth.
Thanks for your thoughts on the false prophet and Babylon.
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Babylon is clearly identified as Jerusalem, "the city where their Lord was crucified" in chapter 11.
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Babylon is clearly identified as Jerusalem, "the city where their Lord was crucified" in chapter 11.
Prophecy is my area of interest. My view is that Babylon is not so clearly identifying Rome. And that's because John/Jesus is using a symbolic name, in order to avoid directly referring to Rome.
Babylon was a cryptic symbol for the Roman Empire to identify it as the 4th Kingdom mentioned in Dan 7. This Kingdom would ultimately lead to the Antichrist and to the termination of this Kingdom at the Return of Christ.
I'm speaking of formerly Christian Europe. Rome was obviously in Europe, and out of Europe sprang the Holy Roman Empire, from which has issued a number of Christian states. We are now seeing the predicted Christian apostasy in those territories.
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Question then: How do you interpret Rev. 11 when Babylon is clearly identified as "the city where their Lord was crucified?"
Or do you believe that "the great city" in Rev. 11 is not the same "great city" referenced elsewhere?
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Question then: How do you interpret Rev. 11 when Babylon is clearly identified as "the city where their Lord was crucified?"
Or do you believe that "the great city" in Rev. 11 is not the same "great city" referenced elsewhere?
The passage reads as follows:
Rev 11.7 Now when they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up from the Abyss will attack them, and overpower and kill them. 8 Their bodies will lie in the public square of the great city—which is figuratively called Sodom and Egypt—where also their Lord was crucified.
There are two possible ways of looking at this.
1) The Great City was Jerusalem--not Babylon of Rev 17. Both Jerusalem and Rome may be referred to as "the great city," since John's readers would readily know each city. And John had to be tactful with respect to both cities, to witness to Jews, and to avoid further punishment by the Romans.
2) The Great City was Babylon, and Jesus was crucified in Rome by virtue of the Romans overseeing the trial and execution of Jesus.
Take your pick. But I do believe the Great City, identified as Mystery Babylon, was a cryptic symbol of Rome. John gave two clues to enable Christians to positively identify Rome as such.
1) This Great City has "7 hills." Rome was known as a 7-hilled city.
2) This Great City is the 7th in a succession of 7 kings, which I think refers to historical kingdoms beginning with Egypt. These were kingdoms associating with Israel's history--Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome, and Endtimes Rome. One "is," namely Ancient Rome. One "is to come," namely Endtimes Rome. The Antichrist initiates Antichristian Rome as the "8th king." These two clues identify Rome as "Mystery Babylon," clearly a cryptic symbol, since the word "mystery" is used.
Daniel, in ch. 7, deals with only 4 out of these 7 kingdoms. He begins with Babylon because that is where a new series of endtime kingdoms begin, beginning with the fall of Israel. Babylon is the head of gold, according to Dan 2.
And so, John uses the word "Babylon" to cryptically depict Rome. He cannot identify Rome directly because that would jeopardize his role as prophet--he would be executed immediately. And God also wanted John to witness to the Romans.
The 4th Kingdom, in Dan 7, is Rome. And so, Jerusalem is not here in focus, but rather, Gentile powers. This area is where Jesus sent his Gospel, to the Gentile "nation," instead of to the Jewish nation. And it is here that the great apostasy takes place, before the rise of Antichrist.
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Out of curiosity, when is Jerusalem referred to as "Sodom" or "Egypt"?
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Out of curiosity, when is Jerusalem referred to as "Sodom" or "Egypt"?
In the Apocalypse, reference is made to a "great city" where the Lord (Jesus) was crucified.
Rev 11.7 Now when they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up from the Abyss will attack them, and overpower and kill them. 8 Their bodies will lie in the public square of the great city—which is figuratively called Sodom and Egypt—where also their Lord was crucified.
It is debatable whether the "great city," where Jesus was crucified, actually refers to Jerusalem. We know Jesus was crucified in Jerusalem, but the Apocalypse is a very symbolic book.
John would not have wanted to identify Jerusalem explicitly, in a negative sense, since he wanted to evangelize his fellow Jews. But he did identify some Jews in a negative light, because of their opposition to Christians.
Neither would John have wanted to identify Rome explicitly, since he was a prisoner of the Romans on the island of Patomos, while receiving this revelation. So we have to assume that John's reference, later on in the book, to "Mystery Babylon" is meant to be symbolic of Rome. And John identified the city explicitly at the end of ch. 17 what Christians could only assume to be Rome.
Rev 17.18 The woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth.
Please note here that John identifies the "great city" not as Jerusalem, but as Rome. Only Rome ruled over the kings of the earth.
So the question is, what is the "great city" where "the Lord was crucified?" Was it Jerusalem, or was it Rome? Jesus was not crucified in Rome, but in effect Rome crucified Jesus through the agency of Pontius Pilate.
If John meant to actually refer to Jerusalem, I don't see that he would really be fearful of mentioning Jerusalem, since Jews at that time had already been hostile to him. He was, however, trying to evangelize them. Jesus was, in fact, crucified in Jerusalem.
Both Jerusalem and great cities among the nations were called "great cities" in the Bible. Jerusalem was not great in size but only because of God's dwelling there.
The fact this "great city" is called Egypt and Sodom may indicate that Jerusalem is being referred to, since Israel was judged in the Babylonian Captivity for having "returned to Egypt" and adapted to themselves the sin of Sodom from the pagan nations around them.
Though most of Revelation refers to the "great city" as Rome, this one reference in ch. 11 may indeed refer to Jerusalem. Paul may have indirectly identified Jerusalem as "Egypt" here...
Gal 4.25 Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present city of Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children.
Paul here is referring to those who remain in "bondage" under the Law after Christ had freed them both from its guilt and from its requirements. It is like the Egyptian bondage Israel had come out of during the exodus.
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The beast from the sea makes an image of the beast from the sea and makes people worship it. I think it is the false prophet in Rev. 16:13; 19:20; and 20:10.
What do you think about the possibility that the beast from the earth is also the harlot called Babylon?
Consider that the beast from the sea exercises all of the authority of the first beast (Rev. 13:12). Similarly, Babylon sits on the beast (Rev. 17:3) and has authority to reign over the kings of the earth (Rev. 17:18).
Moreover, Rev. 14:8-11 mentions the wine of the wrath of Babylon's fornication, and then also talks about wine of the wrath of God related to worshipping the image (which the beast from the sea made everyone worship).
Babylon is Babel, where where mankind wanted to reach heaven their own way. Called the mother of harlots, because multiple "lovers" is the same as worshipping many idols.
The beast that rises out of the sea is comprised of kingdoms who worshipped these
different gods and so the harlot was always on the beasts back. It may be that the beast to come (the 8th), although a false god himself, puts and end to idol worship, except for himself.
The beast from the earth is his minister.
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The beast from the sea makes an image of the beast from the sea and makes people worship it. I think it is the false prophet in Rev. 16:13; 19:20; and 20:10.
What do you think about the possibility that the beast from the earth is also the harlot called Babylon?
Consider that the beast from the sea exercises all of the authority of the first beast (Rev. 13:12). Similarly, Babylon sits on the beast (Rev. 17:3) and has authority to reign over the kings of the earth (Rev. 17:18).
Moreover, Rev. 14:8-11 mentions the wine of the wrath of Babylon's fornication, and then also talks about wine of the wrath of God related to worshipping the image (which the beast from the sea made everyone worship).
Babylon is Babel, where where mankind wanted to reach heaven their own way. Called the mother of harlots, because multiple "lovers" is the same as worshipping many idols.
The beast that rises out of the sea is comprised of kingdoms who worshipped these
different gods and so the harlot was always on the beasts back. It may be that the beast to come (the 8th), although a false god himself, puts and end to idol worship, except for himself.
The beast from the earth is his minister.
People are still worshipping all kinds of idols at the sixth trumpet, and I don't recall the beast forbidding the worship of other gods. The beast does blaspheme the true God (Rev. 13:6).
Revelation 9:20 The rest of mankind, who were not killed with these plagues, didn’t repent of the works of their hands, that they wouldn’t worship demons, and the idols of gold, and of silver, and of brass, and of stone, and of wood; which can’t see, hear, or walk.
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People are still worshipping all kinds of idols at the sixth trumpet, and I don't recall the beast forbidding the worship of other gods. The beast does blaspheme the true God (Rev. 13:6).
Revelation 9:20 The rest of mankind, who were not killed with these plagues, didn’t repent of the works of their hands, that they wouldn’t worship demons, and the idols of gold, and of silver, and of brass, and of stone, and of wood; which can’t see, hear, or walk.
Babylon is destroyed by the 10 kings who give their authority to the beast (Rev.17:12-13, 17) and the minister of this beast orders the execution of anyone who refuses to worship his image (Rev.13:15).
It makes no sense for the 10 kings under the beast, who is under Satan, to want Babylon destroyed, unless it's a deceptive ploy by the devil to make people think they're worshipping the true God.
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It might shock some, but the 2nd beast of Rev,ch 13 enforces the taking of the mark of the first beast,
Thus the western nations even now are in debt to the real owners of China, and the USA is really owned by the same money people.
So it is that the 4th seal reveals the cruel enforcement of the western nations (the quarter of the earth) to take the mark ( the death) or be killed by the sword.
col
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Out of curiosity, when is Jerusalem referred to as "Sodom" or "Egypt"?
Hi,
Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
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Rev 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
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So one might well ask why the beast from the bottomless pit is in Jerusalem a few days before the return of Christ and resurrection.
Read Joel chapter 2, Rev.chapter 9. and tremble.
Col.
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So one might well ask why the beast from the bottomless pit is in Jerusalem a few days before the return of Christ and resurrection.
Read Joel chapter 2, Rev.chapter 9. and tremble.
Col.
I shouldn't think the Beast from the Bottomless Pit is in Jerusalem a *few days* before the Return of Christ.
The angel of the Abyss, who has fallen from the sky to the earth, was given the key to release "locusts" from the Abyss (ch. 9).
The beast comes up out of the Abyss (ch. 11 and 17).
The 1st Beast out of the Sea (ch. 13).
The 2nd Beast out of the Earth (ch. 13).
This "angel of the Abyss appears in the Revelation before the Beast is detailed as Satan (ch. 12), the Antichrist (ch. 13), and the False Prophet (ch. 13). It is also before John describes the Beast riding upon the Harlot, which is Rome.
It appears to me that this "Angel of the Abyss" is Satan himself, who fell from heaven at his fall from God, and who is, in a sense, confined to earthly activities. This is his "Abyss," which is a limited imprisonment of his full activities on earth.
Satan releases the Antichrist into full activity at the beginning of the 3.5 years of Antichrist's reign. The Abyss is opened up, allowing demonic torment for 5 months, among other things that lead to persecution of the Church.
This ends with Satan being thrown back into imprisonment, along with the Beast who is overthrown by Christ at his 2nd Coming. At least, this is how I see it.
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The star of Rev ch 9 is a man, the leader of Babylon,who returns to his former state of--
Eze 32:23 Whose graves are set in the sides of the pit, and her company is round about her grave: all of them slain, fallen by the sword, which caused terror in the land of the living.
Read Joel chapter 2.
Note that there is complete ruin of the churches before that occurs---
Rev 8:12 And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise.
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The star of Rev ch 9 is a man, the leader of Babylon,who returns to his former state of--
Eze 32:23 Whose graves are set in the sides of the pit, and her company is round about her grave: all of them slain, fallen by the sword, which caused terror in the land of the living.
This prophecy is speaking of ancient prophecy, and about their destiny in the grave. It is about the humiliation of once-proud leaders. It has nothing to do with the endtimes, nor does it say so.
Read Joel chapter 2.
Note that there is complete ruin of the churches before that occurs---
We, ie European Civilization, have been in a state of apostasy since the Middle Ages. The Catholic Church turned to humanism and to ceremonial tradition. The Protestants brought reformation, but soon turned to intellectualism, and some turned to liberal theology. Ultimately, we have former Christian nations completely abandoning any pretense at true spiritual Christianity. Only the "love and tolerance" of Christianity have been retained, but it is a false love and tolerance.
Paul speaks of the endtimes apostasy, leading to the Antichrist. Yes, Christianity falls just as Israel fell. Nothing is new under the sun.
Rev 8:12 And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise.
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Randy
Paul speaks of the endtimes apostasy, leading to the Antichrist. Yes, Christianity falls just as Israel fell. Nothing is new under the sun.
How so true.
Col
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People are still worshipping all kinds of idols at the sixth trumpet, and I don't recall the beast forbidding the worship of other gods. The beast does blaspheme the true God (Rev. 13:6).
Revelation 9:20 The rest of mankind, who were not killed with these plagues, didn’t repent of the works of their hands, that they wouldn’t worship demons, and the idols of gold, and of silver, and of brass, and of stone, and of wood; which can’t see, hear, or walk.
Babylon is destroyed by the 10 kings who give their authority to the beast (Rev.17:12-13, 17) and the minister of this beast orders the execution of anyone who refuses to worship his image (Rev.13:15).
It makes no sense for the 10 kings under the beast, who is under Satan, to want Babylon destroyed, unless it's a deceptive ploy by the devil to make people think they're worshipping the true God.
I have a pet theory: Babylon rebels against the beast. I think Babylon is the future Jerusalem that is trampled by the Gentiles for 42 months, but then the people rebel, then all nations are gathered together to attack it. Jesus saves the people who flee by the Mount of Olives but the city is destroyed.
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I have a pet theory: Babylon rebels against the beast. I think Babylon is the future Jerusalem that is trampled by the Gentiles for 42 months, but then the people rebel, then all nations are gathered together to attack it. Jesus saves the people who flee by the Mount of Olives but the city is destroyed.
I don't know why exactly, but I think who gets trampled are believers and the 42 months is symbolic of the ministry of our Lord in our lives.
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People are still worshipping all kinds of idols at the sixth trumpet, and I don't recall the beast forbidding the worship of other gods. The beast does blaspheme the true God (Rev. 13:6).
Revelation 9:20 The rest of mankind, who were not killed with these plagues, didn’t repent of the works of their hands, that they wouldn’t worship demons, and the idols of gold, and of silver, and of brass, and of stone, and of wood; which can’t see, hear, or walk.
Babylon is destroyed by the 10 kings who give their authority to the beast (Rev.17:12-13, 17) and the minister of this beast orders the execution of anyone who refuses to worship his image (Rev.13:15).
It makes no sense for the 10 kings under the beast, who is under Satan, to want Babylon destroyed, unless it's a deceptive ploy by the devil to make people think they're worshipping the true God.
I have a pet theory: Babylon rebels against the beast. I think Babylon is the future Jerusalem that is trampled by the Gentiles for 42 months, but then the people rebel, then all nations are gathered together to attack it. Jesus saves the people who flee by the Mount of Olives but the city is destroyed.
I don't know this to be fact, because the Revelation is so symbolic. But if Mystery Babylon really represents the city of Rome, or Roman Civilization, it could be that the Antichrist hates Roman Civilization in its Christianized state? Or, the Antichrist could simply destroy the city of Rome as the symbolic center of European Christianity, or even as the symbol of world Christianity?
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The star of Rev ch 9 is a man, the leader of Babylon,who returns to his former state of--
Eze 32:23 Whose graves are set in the sides of the pit, and her company is round about her grave: all of them slain, fallen by the sword, which caused terror in the land of the living.
This prophecy is speaking of ancient prophecy, and about their destiny in the grave. It is about the humiliation of once-proud leaders. It has nothing to do with the endtimes, nor does it say so.
Read Joel chapter 2.
Note that there is complete ruin of the churches before that occurs---
We, ie European Civilization, has been in a state of apostasy since the Middle Ages. The Catholic Church turned to humanism and to ceremonial tradition. The Protestants brought reformation, but soon turned to intellectualism, and some turned to liberal theology. Ultimately, we have former Christian nations completely abandoning any pretense at true spiritual Christianity. Only the "love and tolerance" of Christianity has been retained, but it is a false love and tolerance.
Paul speaks of the endtimes apostasy, leading to the Antichrist. Yes, Christianity falls just as Israel fell. Nothing is new under the sun.
Rev 8:12 And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise.
In fact the harlot of Re ch 17 is antichrist.
Why do so many refer to the beast as being the antichrist when the beast hates the antichrists and is used by God to destroy the land of the antichrists.
Rev 17:16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire
Rev 18:9 And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,
Rev 18:10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.
Col
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No, don't think the Harlot is the Antichrist. She is described as a city, one with 7 hills. Sounds a lot like Rome.
Traditionally, one of the 2 Beasts are thought to be the Antichrist. I think the 1st Beast is not just the Antichrist, a man, but also his empire, which consists of 10 states and 7 leaders--3 of the leaders are overthrown. Just my opinion.
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No, don't think the Harlot is the Antichrist. She is described as a city, one with 7 hills. Sounds a lot like Rome.
Traditionally, one of the 2 Beasts are thought to be the Antichrist. I think the 1st Beast is not just the Antichrist, a man, but also his empire, which consists of 10 states and 7 leaders--3 of the leaders are overthrown. Just my opinion.
In year ad 30, the jews [not all jews] were of the harlot and they used the Roman beast of the time to kill Christ.
The endtime harlot refers to the fallen of the churches [not all]and their land of whom the prophets have said are full of idols.
According to the end of Dan ch11, the end time king of Babylon turns against the believers, when originally Babylon was for the preservation of the believers, but as in the past, when the majority of the believers turn to the world for their living, then the government becomes their punisher [the 5th trumpet} and then the whole land is destroyed in one day from without [6th trumpet] and Rev.ch18.
Col
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No, don't think the Harlot is the Antichrist. She is described as a city, one with 7 hills. Sounds a lot like Rome.
Traditionally, one of the 2 Beasts are thought to be the Antichrist. I think the 1st Beast is not just the Antichrist, a man, but also his empire, which consists of 10 states and 7 leaders--3 of the leaders are overthrown. Just my opinion.
In year ad 30, the jews [not all jews] were of the harlot and they used the Roman beast of the time to kill Christ.
The endtime harlot refers to the fallen of the churches [not all]and their land of whom the prophets have said are full of idols.
According to the end of Dan ch11, the end time king of Babylon turns against the believers, when originally Babylon was for the preservation of the believers, but as in the past, when the majority of the believers turn to the world for their living, then the government becomes their punisher [the 5th trumpet} and then the whole land is destroyed in one day from without [6th trumpet] and Rev.ch18.
Not to argue with you I'd just like to tell you how I view it. I see Dan 11 as referring, in the last section, to Antiochus 4, and not to endtime Babylon, nor to the Antichrist. Immediately following Dan 11 Daniel speaks of the Great Tribulation of the Jewish People, which was a punishment upon Jewish unbelievers beginning in 70 AD.
The Harlot is, as I said, Rome, because Rev 17 describes her as a city. Jerusalem has also been called a harlot, but in this case, the context seems to describe Rome. Two hints are given as to who this Mystery Harlot is, and both of them point to Rome.
1) the 7 kings provide an illusion to 7 hills, representing the 7 hills of Rome
2) the 7 kings also provide a succession of kingdoms beginning with Egypt and leading to the 6th kingdom which was then present. that also is Rome.
The endtimes state of Rome is European Civilization, and suggests a 7th kingdom. The 8th kingdom will be the Antichristian Kingdom, which assumes power over the 7 kings.
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Not to argue with you I'd just like to tell you how I view it. I see Dan 11 as referring, in the last section, to Antiochus 4, and not to endtime Babylon, nor to the Antichrist. Immediately following Dan 11 Daniel speaks of the Great Tribulation of the Jewish People, which was a punishment upon Jewish unbelievers beginning in 70 AD.
Dan 11:36 And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.
Dan 11:37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.
Dan 11:38 But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things.
Dan 11:39 Thus shall he do in the most strong holds with a strange god, whom he shall acknowledge and increase with glory: and he shall cause them to rule over many, and shall divide the land for gain.
compare with--
Rev 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
Rev 13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
Rev 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
Act 7:48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,
Act 7:49 Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?
Col
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Not to argue with you I'd just like to tell you how I view it. I see Dan 11 as referring, in the last section, to Antiochus 4, and not to endtime Babylon, nor to the Antichrist. Immediately following Dan 11 Daniel speaks of the Great Tribulation of the Jewish People, which was a punishment upon Jewish unbelievers beginning in 70 AD.
Dan 11:36 And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.
Dan 11:37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.
Dan 11:38 But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things.
Dan 11:39 Thus shall he do in the most strong holds with a strange god, whom he shall acknowledge and increase with glory: and he shall cause them to rule over many, and shall divide the land for gain.
compare with--
Rev 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
Rev 13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
Rev 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
Act 7:48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,
Act 7:49 Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?
Col
Trouble is, Dan 11 is lot of history leading up to the Great Tribulation of the Jewish People, which began immediately after they rejected Messiah and lost both their temple and their capital city. Endtimes prophecy does not fit in Dan 11.
On the other hand, compare the last section of Dan 11 with what we know about Antiochus 4, and it fits like a glove. Some get confused, because some of it is reiteration and elaboration. But each detail fits the actual history of Antiochus 4.
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[/quote]
Trouble is, Dan 11 is lot of history leading up to the Great Tribulation of the Jewish People, which began immediately after they rejected Messiah and lost both their temple and their capital city. Endtimes prophecy does not fit in Dan 11.
On the other hand, compare the last section of Dan 11 with what we know about Antiochus 4, and it fits like a glove. Some get confused, because some of it is reiteration and elaboration. But each detail fits the actual history of Antiochus 4.
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No.
It does not fit like a glove, just look at it.
Dan 11:36 And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.
Dan 11:37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.
Dan 11:38 But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things.
Dan 11:39 Thus shall he do in the most strong holds with a strange god, whom he shall acknowledge and increase with glory: and he shall cause them to rule over many, and shall divide the land for gain.
2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
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No.
It does not fit like a glove, just look at it.
Dan 11:36 And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.
Dan 11:37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.
Dan 11:38 But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things.
Dan 11:39 Thus shall he do in the most strong holds with a strange god, whom he shall acknowledge and increase with glory: and he shall cause them to rule over many, and shall divide the land for gain.
2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
Antiochus acted on behalf of a "foreign god," namely the god of the Romans, or Jupiter. Antichrist will act on his own behalf, under the power of Satan--not a "foreign god."
Antiochus did promise rewards for the Hellenistic Jews, who abandoned orthodoxy under the Law. And he did establish military fortifications in major cities like Jerusalem, where he set up a palatial tent.
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I wish I had more insight on the "image of the Beast," but I don't. It appears to be symbolic, and pertains to something the Antichrist constructs in Europe to make people choose against true Christianity. "Babylon" is a euphemistic symbol for Rome, since John at the time was under Roman detention. It was easily understood as such by Christians at that time, who had known of the 4 Beasts of Dan 7, the last of which was Rome and the first of which was Babylon.
The Antichrist alliance rides upon the Roman confederation, which is synonymous with present-day Europe. And so, the False Prophet will be, as the Reformers thought, an end-time apostasy of the Catholic Pope. I wouldn't say the Catholic Church is Antichristian presently. But it certainly has a mix within it that is false religion and opposed to true Christianity. At some point, the Catholic Church will have to decide which side of the fence it is on as an organization.
So this false Pope will establish something within its East-West territory to produce worship towards Antichrist and against true Christianity. I don't know what precisely it is, but it probably doesn't matter. If we are on the right side of the fence, we'll know it when we see it. And it will happen with the rise of Antichrist himself, who will consolidate 10 states under his power, presenting an unchallenged superpower on earth.
The most dreadful time-time of Apocalypse-is coming, I mean when the days will be shortened. Why? It because there will be two RELIGIOUS Beasts reining on the earth:
(1)The ancient Beast of sea -Revelation 13:v.1-9-,
and
(2) the next Beast, the ruthless Beast of earth-Revelation 13:v.11-18.
The ancient Beast of sea is TODAY a religious and satanic MONSTER having 7 heads and 10 horns, and upon his horns 10 crowns, and upon his (7) heads the NAME of BLASPHEMY. This is the FIRST BEAST whose monstrous body began to take shape in the first century AD and still remains. About this Beast of sea(sea means peoples, and nations, and multitudes of all tongues-in fact a Gentile Beast), the angel of the Lord said: Here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven MOUNTAINS, on which the WOMAN sitteth. And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space". (Actually 42 months or 1260 days)
The angel of the Lord reveals clearly the 7 heads are 7 MOUNTAINS, on which the WOMAN sits. Who is the woman if not the ancient church of Rome developed by Paul Apostle(epistle to the Romans) which apostatized, and after was denominated Catholic Church, and later Roman Catholic Church linked to the Roman Empire? Yes, it is the RCC surely. Which are these 7 MOUNTAINS on which the WOMAN-that is the RCC-sits?
Well, the Papacy, the FIRST Beast, it is already running since the beginning of the Church of our LORD JESUS Christ, i.e. from around two millenniums ago, and this FIRST Beast really built a strong and gigantic and satanic idolater religious structure in the 7 regions of the Earth: Europe, and Asia, Africa, Oceania(Australia), North America, Central America and South America.
That said, it is not hard for us to conclude who is this religious and satanic and blasphemer FIRST Beast, the MAN Beast of sea, a Gentile Beast, and in what places of the planet Earth he exercies his religious Power.
On the other hand, 7 heads are also 7 kings, 5 ARE FALLEN, and one IS, and the other IS NOT YET COME; and when he, the seventh and last king comes, he must continue a short space, in fact 42 months or 1260 days. I'm sure that the time is already advanced as far as prophecies are concerned, so I MUST SAY THAT even the sixth of the seven kings has already fallen. Behold, the election of the seventh king is at hand, and all things that the prophecy reveals in Rev.13, such as the manifestation of TWO BEASTS simultaneously, then will fulfill what is written: "Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the Devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
Regarding the MAN Beast of earth - Revelation 13:v.11-18- I intend to comment on the next post .
In Christ JESUS, KING of kings(kings made by Him), and LORD of lords
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I wish I had more insight on the "image of the Beast," but I don't. It appears to be symbolic, and pertains to something the Antichrist constructs in Europe to make people choose against true Christianity. "Babylon" is a euphemistic symbol for Rome, since John at the time was under Roman detention. It was easily understood as such by Christians at that time, who had known of the 4 Beasts of Dan 7, the last of which was Rome and the first of which was Babylon.
The Antichrist alliance rides upon the Roman confederation, which is synonymous with present-day Europe. And so, the False Prophet will be, as the Reformers thought, an end-time apostasy of the Catholic Pope. I wouldn't say the Catholic Church is Antichristian presently. But it certainly has a mix within it that is false religion and opposed to true Christianity. At some point, the Catholic Church will have to decide which side of the fence it is on as an organization.
So this false Pope will establish something within its East-West territory to produce worship towards Antichrist and against true Christianity. I don't know what precisely it is, but it probably doesn't matter. If we are on the right side of the fence, we'll know it when we see it. And it will happen with the rise of Antichrist himself, who will consolidate 10 states under his power, presenting an unchallenged superpower on earth.
The most dreadful time-time of Apocalypse-is coming, I mean when the days will be shortened. Why? It because there will be two RELIGIOUS Beasts reining on the earth:
(1)The ancient Beast of sea -Revelation 13:v.1-9-,
and
(2) the next Beast, the ruthless Beast of earth-Revelation 13:v.11-18.
The ancient Beast of sea is TODAY a religious and satanic MONSTER having 7 heads and 10 horns, and upon his horns 10 crowns, and upon his (7) heads the NAME of BLASPHEMY. This is the FIRST BEAST whose monstrous body began to take shape in the first century AD and still remains. About this Beast of sea(sea means peoples, and nations, and multitudes of all tongues-in fact a Gentile Beast), the angel of the Lord said: Here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven MOUNTAINS, on which the WOMAN sitteth. And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space". (Actually 42 months or 1260 days)
The angel of the Lord reveals clearly the 7 heads are 7 MOUNTAINS, on which the WOMAN sits. Who is the woman if not the ancient church of Rome developed by Paul Apostle(epistle to the Romans) which apostatized, and after was denominated Catholic Church, and later Roman Catholic Church linked to the Roman Empire? Yes, it is the RCC surely. Which are these 7 MOUNTAINS on which the WOMAN-that is the RCC-sits?
Well, the Papacy, the FIRST Beast, it is already running since the beginning of the Church of our LORD JESUS Christ, i.e. from around two millenniums ago, and this FIRST Beast really built a strong and gigantic and satanic idolater religious structure in the 7 regions of the Earth: Europe, and Asia, Africa, Oceania(Australia), North America, Central America and South America.
That said, it is not hard for us to conclude who is this religious and satanic and blasphemer FIRST Beast, the MAN Beast of sea, a Gentile Beast, and in what places of the planet Earth he exercies his religious Power.
On the other hand, 7 heads are also 7 kings, 5 ARE FALLEN, and one IS, and the other IS NOT YET COME; and when he, the seventh and last king comes, he must continue a short space, in fact 42 months or 1260 days. I'm sure that the time is already advanced as far as prophecies are concerned, so I MUST SAY THAT even the sixth of the seven kings has already fallen. Behold, the election of the seventh king is at hand, and all things that the prophecy reveals in Rev.13, such as the manifestation of TWO BEASTS simultaneously, then will fulfill what is written: "Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the Devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
Regarding the MAN Beast of earth - Revelation 13:v.11-18- I intend to comment on the next post .
In Christ JESUS, KING of kings(kings made by Him), and LORD of lords
Some of this is certainly speculative, and I don't claim to have special knowledge--just thoughts or opinions. My feeling is that the Sea Beast is the Antichrist over European Civilization, and the Land Beast is an apostate Pope in Europe. Surely, the time is short.
As I said earlier, "Mystery Babylon" is said to be a "mystery." That means, it is a euphemism for the city of Rome. John couldn't come out and say "Rome." He was a prisoner of Rome. Bad-mouthing Rome would get him killed. So he had to tell a kind of parable, with riddles.
The 2 riddles are a turn on the literal interpretation of 10 kings in Antichrist's European confederation. There will be a literal set of 10 kings out of European Civilization. 3 kings will be removed by Antichrist, leaving only 7 kings remaining. 10 horns and 7 heads, or 10 states and 7 leaders, with Antichrist presiding over them all.
These literal 7 kings John turns into a riddle to clarify that he is speaking of Rome. The 7 kings become symbols of things John's readers knew would refer to Rome.
1st riddle: the 7 kings are 7 mountains. Rome was known as the 7-hilled city. And John later clarifies that this city rules over the nations, which was true in that region of the earth.
2nd riddle: the 7 kings are 7 successive kingdoms, which I believe was understood by John's readers to start with Egypt. Israel's history began with Egypt, and the Gentile nations that stood in opposition to them would then be, in succession, Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece, and Rome.
John designated the "present king," or the 6th kingdom, to be Rome without actually saying it. Everybody at the time knew that Rome was presently ruling. The 7th kingdom would be a 10 nation confederation, which ultimately would become the 8th kingdom, the Antichristian Empire.
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]The beast from the sea makes an image of the beast from the sea and makes people worship it. I think it is the false prophet in Rev. 16:13; 19:20; and 20:10.
Well the first beast of 13 is the fourth beast of dan 7. that makes the second beast the little horn. now both are probably the same person with the second beast being the first plus satan. the second is telling the world to worship the first much like jesus the son to god the father
What do you think about the possibility that the beast from the earth is also the harlot called Babylon?
no. we are told the harlot is a city wherein is the beast.
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I wish I had more insight on the "image of the Beast," but I don't.
the image is built or made by the people thus it would be a temple which in times past the prohets made wherein god could dwell
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Babylon is clearly identified as Jerusalem, "the city where their Lord was crucified" in chapter 11.
correct but is it the past earthly or one yet to come
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Though most of Revelation refers to the "great city" as Rome,
not once does rev indicate the city being rome. this you made aS NO OTHER ALTERNATIVE presented. where would a person claiming to be god rule, rome. lol.
the city is jerusalem but not of old but currently in the heavens
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The 4th Kingdom, in Dan 7, is Rome.
again scripture never indicates its rome.
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I think Babylon is the future Jerusalem that is trampled by the Gentiles for 42 months, but then the people rebel, then all nations are gathered together to attack it. Jesus saves the people who flee by the Mount of Olives but the city is destroyed.
yes. she is commiting what, fornication. the 10 northern tribes rebel (10 kings) and help destroy it. then those with the mark of the beast gather to fight christ at his return
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Satan releases the Antichrist into full activity at the beginning of the 3.5 years of Antichrist's reign. The Abyss is opened up, allowing demonic torment for 5 months, among other things that lead to persecution of the Church.
can not satan and the antichrist man be one in the same person spirit indwells man
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I don't know why exactly, but I think who gets trampled are believers and the 42 months is symbolic of the ministry of our Lord in our lives.
the gentiles who trample are not believers
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No, don't think the Harlot is the Antichrist. She is described as a city, one with 7 hills. Sounds a lot like Rome.
mountains not hills and they resent those which did not overcome from the 7 chuches not pyhsicality of the land.
Traditionally, one of the 2 Beasts are thought to be the Antichrist. I think the 1st Beast is not just the Antichrist, a man, but also his empire, which consists of 10 states and 7 leaders--3 of the leaders are overthrown. Just my opinion.
well tradition is wrong the first beast is the fourth kingdom controlled by spirit. this kingdom is trying to pose as the kingdom of god. the second beast is a man. the counterfet of god the father and god the son
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the gentiles who trample are not believers
I was talking about the trampled, not the tramplers.
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the gentiles who trample are not believers
I was talking about the trampled, not the tramplers.
i dont think anybody is getting trampled rather a way to say they inhabited the city
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Some of this is certainly speculative, and I don't claim to have special knowledge--just thoughts or opinions.
I see really that you claim, as you said, only your thoughts or opinions in speculative ways, based in theories of storytellers and not in revelations by the Spirit of prophecy. As you know, and certainly will agree, the testimony of our Lord JESUS Christ is the Spirit of prophecy-Revelation 19:v.10.
My feeling is that the Sea Beast is the Antichrist over European Civilization, and the Land Beast is an apostate Pope in Europe. Surely, the time is short.
The topic is about the Beast of earth(Rev. 13:v.11), but with regards the Sea Beast you refer(Rev. 13:v.1), I think you know that sea means waters; the angel of the LORD said to John that the waters "which he sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues"-Rev.17:v.15. It was around year 95AD. John said: I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a Beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. By revelation we can see that this Beast of "sea" rose out up of the midst of the peoples and nations, and multitudes of all tongues, therefore, this Beast is a Gentile Beast. Israel had already been banned in the year 70AD or 25 years ago of their land, and was spread around the Earth,many fled to Rome.
As I said earlier, "Mystery Babylon" is said to be a "mystery." That means, it is a euphemism for the city of Rome. John couldn't come out and say "Rome." He was a prisoner of Rome. Bad-mouthing Rome would get him killed. So he had to tell a kind of parable, with riddles.
Brother, you should remember that the Book of Revelation was a sealed or secret Book of GOD the Father. John only wrote what the Angel of our Lord JESUS commanded him to write. Rev. 1:v.1 - Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John. Forget your conjectures above, stay only in the Word of GOD. The Word is GOD. GOD is Truth.
The 2 riddles are a turn on the literal interpretation of 10 kings in Antichrist's European confederation. There will be a literal set of 10 kings out of European Civilization. 3 kings will be removed by Antichrist, leaving only 7 kings remaining. 10 horns and 7 heads, or 10 states and 7 leaders, with Antichrist presiding over them all.
Brother, you should verify if what you say is in accord what was revealed to John by our Lord JESUS and was showed by His angel to John. It is written that the Beast that John saw was risen up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his (7) heads the name of blasphemy. Even the ancient ROOTS of the Beast was revealed, which was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the Dragon gave him his Power, and his Seat, and great Authority.
THE SEVEN (7) HEADS OF THE BEAST OF SEA
The seven heads are 7 mountains, on which the woman (the RCC) sitteth. And are also seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. (42 months, say I based in Scriptures)
The TEN (10) HORNS OF THE BEAST OF SEA
THE ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour (a short space, 42 months, say I based in Scriptures) with the Beast. as says the Word of GOD. The Word is GOD.
By revelation I must say that today or in the current time, six kings have already fallen, no more5 fallen, because the time has come a long way and the sixth "king" has died too. Now only the last one is missing, the seventh. And the 10 kings (10 horns) have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour (a short space, 42 months, say I based in Scriptures) with the Beast.[/b] as says the Word of GOD. The Word is GOD. This prophecy about the 10 kings will fulfill LITERALLY in the beginning of the FIRST half of the week 70th Daniel 9:v.27 still in this decade 2020 to 2030. GET READY
These literal 7 kings John turns into a riddle to clarify that he is speaking of Rome. The 7 kings become symbols of things John's readers knew would refer to Rome.
1st riddle: the 7 kings are 7 mountains. Rome was known as the 7-hilled city. And John later clarifies that this city rules over the nations, which was true in that region of the earth;
2nd riddle: the 7 kings are 7 successive kingdoms, which I believe was understood by John's readers to start with Egypt. Israel's history began with Egypt, and the Gentile nations that stood in opposition to them would then be, in succession, Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece, and Rome.
Yes, about the literal 7 kings, John was "speaking of Rome" as you said. Now, six are fallen, Now only the last one is missing, the seventh. (I go to reveal unto you and all: Scriptures are revealing here a lineage of 7 Popes. As I said, 6 have already fallen. The last must be known in this decade: Will be he manifest himself as Paul VII? We will see)
As it is above written, The seven heads are 7 mountains, on which the woman (the RCC) sitteth. And are also seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. (42 months, say I based in Scriptures)
John designated the "present king," or the 6th kingdom, to be Rome without actually saying it. Everybody at the time knew that Rome was presently ruling. The 7th kingdom would be a 10 nation confederation, which ultimately would become the 8th kingdom, the Antichristian Empire.
The Antichrist Empire that will be established in this current decade, will be established by the TWO Man Beasts, the Man Beast of sea -the Papacy- a Gentile Beast, and the Man Beast of the earth, who has two horns like a lamb (a false lamb, a false messiah, an esoteric, and kabbalistic, and spiritist messiah)and he spake as a dragon.
And he will exercise all the power of the FIRST Beast -the Papacy- before him, and will cause the earth-earth here is Israel- and them which dwell therein to worship the FIRST Beast -the Papacy-, whose deadly wound was healed. (was healed by the esoteric, and kabbalistic, and spiritist messiah, Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, Who will oppose and exalt himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God will sit in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God).
The Man Beast false messiah will heal the mortal wound of ONE of the SEVEN heads of the Man Beast of sea because will give his Power, and his Throne in Jerusalem, and great Authority for 42 months -the FIRST half of the week (of years), and both will make a deal to build a religious and satanic universal kingdom yet in this decade-Revelation 13:v.11 to 18 - even the Jews in the FIRST half of the week will worship the Pope enthroned in Jerusalem by the false messiah, the future ruler of Israel and guide of the esoteric, and kabbalistic, and spiritist Judaism. In fact, an alliance between iron and clay now in the END of the times-Daniel 2. Many things could still be said about the MOST SATANIC DECADE in which we are living, that is the last. GET READY,
As was revealed to Daniel, Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. Daniel 12:v.12
May our Lord GOD bless and keep us, and give us His protection
Amen
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"I must say by revelation..."
Oh, my!
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"I must say by revelation..."
Oh, my!
Yes, the Word is GOD. Here's the Revelation of Jesus Christ, which GOD gave unto Him, to shew unto His servants things which must shortly come to pass;...
Aren't you of them?
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So how is your "revelation" any better, qualitatively or objectively, than my "revelation?"
I say that the "beast" has already done his worst and has been dead some 1900+ years. I say that, by "revelation," of course. Some of the original hearers of that prophesy saw it come true in their midst.
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So how is your "revelation" any better, qualitatively or objectively, than my "revelation?"
You are saying that, I didn't.
I say that the "beast" has already done his worst and has been dead some 1900+ years. I say that, by "revelation," of course. Some of the original hearers of that prophesy saw it come true in their midst.
My post is about two satanic Beasts of Revelation 13:v.1-9 and the ruthless Beast of earth-Revelation 13:v.11-18, not about your dead "beast".
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The beasts of Revelation 13 were fulfilled in the 1st century. That is my interpretation of Rev 13.
There is no future "beast" in relation to end times. That is my interpretation of Rev 13.
I understand that you differ with that interpretation, which was, historically, the accepted interpretation for most of church history.
You are, throughout your posts, claiming that your interpretation of the Apocalypse, the unveiling, is superior to any other interpretation because it is given by "revelation."
You have an interpretation that differs from mine and from that of many others. The entire book of the Apocalypse is clearly given by revelation, i.e., by inspiration of God; however, no Scripture is subject to private interpretation, nor are interpretations given by some "Spirit of revelation."
The Apocalypse is not a secret or sealed book, other than that John was instructed exactly what to say and what not to say. The first century readers knew exactly what the book meant, and what they were supposed to do about it.
We are to take encouragement from the Apocalypse, in the superiority of Jesus, in the reality that we, the Church, are the City of God, the Bride, the New Jerusalem where God dwells, and that Jesus is neither concerned with nor surprised by anything.
We are not to live in fear of beasts or dragons or antiChrists or plagues or famines. The only thing for which to prepare, whether that day is today or a gazillion years from now, is the ultimate end of time and our entry into eternity.
And no, there are no Popes in the Apocalypse.
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You are saying that, I didn't.
If you're saying your understanding of the text has been divinely revealed to you (revelation), then that understanding is de facto superior to all others, because it's divinely revealed, i.e., the - a? - way the text ought to be understood.
Do be careful with such claims, if that's what you're saying.
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The beasts of Revelation 13 were fulfilled in the 1st century. That is my interpretation of Rev 13.
There is no future "beast" in relation to end times. That is my interpretation of Rev 13.
I understand that you differ with that interpretation, which was, historically, the accepted interpretation for most of church history.
You are, throughout your posts, claiming that your interpretation of the Apocalypse, the unveiling, is superior to any other interpretation because it is given by "revelation."
What I have learned since I was a boy (my parents were believers when I was born) is that the Scripture explains the Scriptures as a whole, from Genesis to Revelation. I work by/through/with the Word of GOD. The Word is GOD-John 1:v.1- , the invisible GOD. Great mystery.
The Word of GOD says that "Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love Him. (Honestly I love Him, I love His Word.) But God hath revealed them unto us by His Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of GOD-1 Corinthians 2:v.9-10.
If, yes, If the interpretations I have posted or will post with the help of GOD are "superior to any other interpretations" as you said, then it is not from me but from GOD because the Word is GOD. Praised be OUR GOD.
You have an interpretation that differs from mine and from that of many others. The entire book of the Apocalypse is clearly given by revelation, i.e., by inspiration of God; however, no Scripture is subject to private interpretation, nor are interpretations given by some "Spirit of revelation."
But God ha revealed them unto us by His Spirit: for the Spirit searches all things, yea, the deep things of God.
See you; you say "no Scripture is subject to private interpretation", but it is not you who are saying, I mean, it is not of your own, it is GOD speaking through you, therefore, I agree with you because it is the Word of GOD, as is written in 2Peter 1:v.20, right? You also said that "The entire book of the Apocalypse is clearly given by revelation, i.e., by inspiration of God;", it is true and I must agree with you, because the book of Revelation yet sealed with seven seals was with GOD, the Father, and the seven seals only was opened after 65 years when JESUS ascended to Heaven after His crucifixion.
The Apocalypse is not a secret or sealed book, other than that John was instructed exactly what to say and what not to say. The first century readers knew exactly what the book meant, and what they were supposed to do about it.
What I said is that Revelation was a sealed book while was with GOD until 65 years after JESUS's ascension. After JESUS have broken the seven seals It was the person of the angel of our LORD who dictated the content of the book to John. JESUS sent his angel and signified the content of the book by his angel unto his servant John, and to us too, course-Revelation 1:v.1.
We are to take encouragement from the Apocalypse, in the superiority of Jesus, in the reality that we, the Church, are the City of God, the Bride, the New Jerusalem where God dwells, and that Jesus is neither concerned with nor surprised by anything.
What I know is that our Lord JESUS , around the year 95 AD, was concerned with His body in the earth represented by His Church (seven Churches of Asia) which were threatened by the spiritual condition of weakness of the angels of the Churches, five of them were spiritually fell, in so bad and sad spiritual conditions and of weaknesses.
We are not to live in fear of beasts or dragons or antiChrists or plagues or famines. The only thing for which to prepare, whether that day is today or a gazillion years from now, is the ultimate end of time and our entry into eternity.
I work with the Word of GOD. The Word is GOD. What does the Word of GOD say? Psalm 91:v.1-7
1 He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty.
2 I will say of the Lord, He is my refuge and my fortress: my God; in him will I trust.
3 Surely he shall deliver thee from the snare of the fowler, and from the noisome pestilence.
4 He shall cover thee with his feathers, and under his wings shalt thou trust: his truth shall be thy shield and buckler.
5 Thou shalt not be afraid for the terror by night; nor for the arrow that flieth by day;
6 Nor for the pestilence that walketh in darkness; nor for the destruction that wasteth at noonday.
7 A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee.
And no, there are no Popes in the Apocalypse.
You are saying that because your thinking is from a human perspective, not from GOD’s perspective.
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You are saying that because your thinking is from a human perspective, not from GOD’s perspective.
What was it Paul said?
Galatians 4:6 Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone.
Indeed.
RK's view, and this goes for any view that isn't concordant with yours, is not automatically or necessarily the result of thinking 'from a human perspective'. The suggestion that those who aren't in agreement with you either don't love the Lord as much as you do, or are human in their thinking, is inappropriate.
So carefully consider how you phrase what you want to say going forward. No more RCC bashing, no more conclusions like the one in question, and no further equivocations between your understanding and revelation. That last one is really important, by the way.
Psalm 91, no less.
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If you're saying your understanding of the text has been divinely revealed to you (revelation), then that understanding is de facto superior to all others, because it's divinely revealed, i.e., the - a? - way the text ought to be understood.
Do be careful with such claims, if that's what you're saying.
Greetings in Christ JESUS
Thank you for your kind words
I work with/through/by the Word of GOD. The Word is GOD.
1 Corinthians 12:v.3 to 11
... No man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit. (Who is not a ghost as is written in English language, but a Person likeness the Word made flesh-JESUS- when GOD sent Him here).
4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.
In Christ JESUS, KING of kings (kings made by Him), and LORD of lords
For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?1 Corinthians 14:v.8
When The Trumpet Of The Lord Shall Sound
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I work with/through/by the Word of GOD. The Word is GOD.
Yes, you've said. This does not guarantee that every, or even any, interpretation you propose is in fact from God and not your own understanding. Nor does it justify you in claiming that the view of others comes from 'human thinking', as if they, unlike you, are not working 'with/through/by the Word of GOD'. (Or, that they must not be if they disagree with you.)
I think I understand what you're trying to say: attributing to God and not claiming as your own. Fair enough -- if. Still, be careful in your speech and be more responsible with your claims.
Sincerely,
The gifts of knowledge, faith, discernment and wisdom
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Some of this is certainly speculative, and I don't claim to have special knowledge--just thoughts or opinions.
I see really that you claim, as you said, only your thoughts or opinions in speculative ways, based in theories of storytellers and not in revelations by the Spirit of prophecy. As you know, and certainly will agree, the testimony of our Lord JESUS Christ is the Spirit of prophecy-Revelation 19:v.10.
You sound puffed up, feeling "special?" It's always best to "keep your head down," and remain humble. God exalts the humble. But He humbles those who exalt themselves.
Interpretation is not the role of the prophet, but rather, of the teacher. If you are claiming to interpret Scriptures by the "spirit of prophecy," you're not being honest with yourself. Paul said, "study to show yourself approved by God"--not, prophesy the Scriptures without any care to actually learn first.
If you aren't willing to consider a brother's viewpoint, and instead rely only on yourself and the "spirit of prophecy," then you are refusing to submit to a realistic education, and reject the Scripture that says, "submit yourselves to one another," and "consider each other better than yourselves."
I hate to be "preachy," but I've lived a long time and have had to learn these kinds of lessons for myself. Humility is a great virtue to develop.
Once I know you have respect for those you wish to discuss with we can share properly?
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My feeling is that the Sea Beast is the Antichrist over European Civilization, and the Land Beast is an apostate Pope in Europe. Surely, the time is short.
The topic is about the Beast of earth(Rev. 13:v.11), but with regards the Sea Beast you refer(Rev. 13:v.1), I think you know that sea means waters; the angel of the LORD said to John that the waters "which he sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues"-Rev.17:v.15. It was around year 95AD. John said: I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a Beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. By revelation we can see that this Beast of "sea" rose out up of the midst of the peoples and nations, and multitudes of all tongues, therefore, this Beast is a Gentile Beast. Israel had already been banned in the year 70AD or 25 years ago of their land, and was spread around the Earth,many fled to Rome.
How is this a response to what I said? I said I thought the Sea Beast is the Antichrist who is to come to preside over European Civilization. And you agree or disagree? You initially said my view is "Man's opinion--not revelation," and now you agree with me that the Sea Beast is a "Gentile Beast?" Or, are you distinguishing this "Gentile Beast" from what I called "European Civilization?" European Civilization is also a "Gentile Beast" that arises out of many nations.
As I said earlier, "Mystery Babylon" is said to be a "mystery." That means, it is a euphemism for the city of Rome. John couldn't come out and say "Rome." He was a prisoner of Rome. Bad-mouthing Rome would get him killed. So he had to tell a kind of parable, with riddles.
Brother, you should remember that the Book of Revelation was a sealed or secret Book of GOD the Father. John only wrote what the Angel of our Lord JESUS commanded him to write. Rev. 1:v.1 - Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John. Forget your conjectures above, stay only in the Word of GOD. The Word is GOD. GOD is Truth.
No, I don't believe I should "know that!" The 7 sealed book was opened and revealed. The book of Revelation indicates it is a *revelation*--not a secret. It was to reveal things to the Church--not hide them!
The 2 riddles are a turn on the literal interpretation of 10 kings in Antichrist's European confederation. There will be a literal set of 10 kings out of European Civilization. 3 kings will be removed by Antichrist, leaving only 7 kings remaining. 10 horns and 7 heads, or 10 states and 7 leaders, with Antichrist presiding over them all.
Brother, you should verify if what you say is in accord what was revealed to John by our Lord JESUS and was showed by His angel to John. It is written that the Beast that John saw was risen up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his (7) heads the name of blasphemy. Even the ancient ROOTS of the Beast was revealed, which was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the Dragon gave him his Power, and his Seat, and great Authority.
We all know the Beast had leopard, bear, and lion characteristics. These characteristics had been used in ancient times by Daniel to depict certain characteristics present in the kingdoms of Babylon, Greece, and Persia. The fact they are used indicates they once again point to the 4th Kingdom, Rome, who succeeds them all. And Rome is, I believe, European Civilization, which emerged out of the ancient Roman Empire. They contain all of these characteristics, suggesting violent aggression having speed, power, and ferocity.
THE SEVEN (7) HEADS OF THE BEAST OF SEA
The seven heads are 7 mountains, on which the woman (the RCC) sitteth. And are also seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. (42 months, say I based in Scriptures)
The TEN (10) HORNS OF THE BEAST OF SEA
THE ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour (a short space, 42 months, say I based in Scriptures) with the Beast. as says the Word of GOD. The Word is GOD.
By revelation I must say that today or in the current time, six kings have already fallen, no more5 fallen, because the time has come a long way and the sixth "king" has died too.
You say this by "revelation?" Really? Do you know the difference between your own thoughts and divine revelation? Christians often get these things confused! And that's a real danger in the church.
We should be real careful claiming God is putting His seal of approval on a particular interpretation. It is not just important to be "spiritual" in interpreting--it is just as important to be true to the text, and honest about how sure we are.
Yes, about the literal 7 kings, John was "speaking of Rome" as you said. Now, six are fallen, Now only the last one is missing, the seventh. (I go to reveal unto you and all: Scriptures are revealing here a lineage of 7 Popes. As I said, 6 have already fallen. The last must be known in this decade: Will be he manifest himself as Paul VII? We will see)
This is just one theory--not a divine "revelation!"
The Antichrist Empire that will be established in this current decade, will be established by the TWO Man Beasts, the Man Beast of sea -the Papacy- a Gentile Beast, and the Man Beast of the earth, who has two horns like a lamb (a false lamb, a false messiah, an esoteric, and kabbalistic, and spiritist messiah)and he spake as a dragon.
I can't say whether any of this will be fulfilled in this decade or not. Perhaps. Perhaps not. The point is, we were told not to focus on "times and seasons, which are in the Father's hands." Our duty is to focus on present ministry, leaving the times and seasons to God.
Such predictions by self-proclaimed "revelation" is a blight upon the Church, and you should grow out of this. We've all been puffed up at one time or another. We can't handle direct contact with God without getting puffed up. It's in the nature of our sinful humanity. Over time, perhaps, we can learn humility. Watchman Nee taught that we can learn this through a process of allowing the Lord to "break us." It doesn't come easy. True spirituality is hard.
And he will exercise all the power of the FIRST Beast -the Papacy- before him, and will cause the earth-earth here is Israel- and them which dwell therein to worship the FIRST Beast -the Papacy-, whose deadly wound was healed. (was healed by the esoteric, and kabbalistic, and spiritist messiah, Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, Who will oppose and exalt himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God will sit in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God).
So you think/"know" that the 1st Beast is the Papacy, the "earth" is Israel, and the Great Whore is Rome? That's a legitimate theory, but it is only a theory. I've given you my speculation on it, and it also is based on the Scriptures. The 1st Beast had 7 heads and 10 horns, which seems to relate to the 10 horns of the Antichrist in Dan 7. They emerge from the 4th Beast, which appears to be the Roman Kingdom. And so, I've identified it as European Civilization, which has had a long history of the Holy Roman Empire. It was the nation that had God's temporal Kingdom passed onto it from Israel. But like Israel, it is now apostasizing from the rules of that Kingdom.
The Man Beast false messiah will heal the mortal wound of ONE of the SEVEN heads of the Man Beast of sea because will give his Power, and his Throne in Jerusalem, and great Authority for 42 months -the FIRST half of the week (of years), and both will make a deal to build a religious and satanic universal kingdom yet in this decade-Revelation 13:v.11 to 18 - even the Jews in the FIRST half of the week will worship the Pope enthroned in Jerusalem by the false messiah, the future ruler of Israel and guide of the esoteric, and kabbalistic, and spiritist Judaism. In fact, an alliance between iron and clay now in the END of the times-Daniel 2. Many things could still be said about the MOST SATANIC DECADE in which we are living, that is the last. GET READY,
As I said before, there is no basis, as I see it, in having a 7 year "Week," since the 70th Week of Daniel was fulfilled immediately after the 69th Week, which was in the time before Christ's earthly ministry. So to divide up a 7 year period into two halves appears to have no basis in Scriptural reality.
We could discuss what we think that "wound of the Beast" is, but I have to know you're discussing this in good faith--not by self-proclaimed "revelation" from God! It's a blessing to read and to live by what is in the book of Revelation. It is a guide to living in the endtimes.
As was revealed to Daniel, Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. Daniel 12:v.12
As I've said elsewhere, the 1335 days relates to the time of Antiochus 4. His reign of terror ended after 1290 days, and it may be that it took awhile for the news of his demise to reach Israel.
May our Lord GOD bless and keep us, and give us His protection
Amen
Thank you. May the Lord bless all of us who pursue Him in sincerity and in genuine humility.
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I work with/through/by the Word of GOD. The Word is GOD.
Yes, you've said. This does not guarantee that every, or even any, interpretation you propose is in fact from God and not your own understanding. Nor does it justify you in claiming that the view of others comes from 'human thinking', as if they, unlike you, are not working 'with/through/by the Word of GOD'. (Or, that they must not be if they disagree with you.)
I think I understand what you're trying to say: attributing to God and not claiming as your own. Fair enough -- if. Still, be careful in your speech and be more responsible with your claims.
Sincerely,
The gifts of knowledge, faith, discernment and wisdom
I enjoyed very much your post. Praised be our Lord Jesus Christ.
By the words of your post I can discern, by the Word of GOD-the Word is GOD- that you are manifesting within /according Scriptures that say: "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets (false preachers of the Word of GOD) are gone out into the world"-1John 4:v.1.
"No lie is of the Truth, I have not written unto you because ye know not the Truth, but because ye know it-1John 2:v.21. If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater-1John 5:v.9.
And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness. And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true GOD, and eternal life-1John 5:v.19-20.
Honestly, I do not know word more powerful than the Word of GOD-the Word is GOD; Great mystery, no? As is written, "12 The word of GOD is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a DISCERNER of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in His sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of Him with whom we must render an account-Hebrews 4:v.12-13.
In fact, sometimes Oseas takes a look of various Scriptures with some shared thoughts.
In Christ JESUS, KING of kings (kings made by Him) and LORD of lords
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You say this by "revelation?" Really? Do you know the difference between your own thoughts and divine revelation? Christians often get these things confused! And that's a real danger in the church.
We should be real careful claiming God is putting His seal of approval on a particular interpretation. It is not just important to be "spiritual" in interpreting--it is just as important to be true to the text, and honest about how sure we are.
I think what's going on here is culture + ESL (possibly) + theological positions that don't match our own, especially epistemologically. For example, Oseas seems to be operating from the understanding that if one loves the Word dearly enough, prays without ceasing, asks for understanding, and so forth, then it will be given. Thus, the understanding such a person arrives at is surely either revealed, or all too human and in need of further dedication to the Lord. In other words, eventually and always considered to be revealed. It's not possible for the Christian to pray for understanding, then rely on their own understanding to interpret.
Or who knows, maybe I'm totally off base. The question is what ought one do with that, if it's the case? The lack of a shared cultural/theological/philosophical understanding won't lead to edifying discourse. The 4th and 21st centuries don't pair well together.
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I think that yes, many Christians honestly believe that having a spiritual experience with God entitles them to claim the "anointing" on virtually anything they do, including interpreting Scriptures. If they point their finger into the Bible, and out comes a verse that seems applicable, we have a legitimate case of "automatic writing." ;)
Who knows? Maybe God uses "happy accidents" sometimes? But even if He does, it isn't wise to apply presumptive guesswork and not hard work studying.
Thanks, there are indeed reasons for this. I'm not going to give excuses other than admit "we're all too human!" ;)
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ASIDE: Considering the rationale behind such institutions as infant baptism for the removal of "original sin," per example, one cannot but warily suspect the formation of doctrines - devised after the NT- intended to define and classify elements of the human condition since the fall.
Will attempt to merge and touch on these related topics and invite insight in upcoming thread.
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My feeling is that the Sea Beast is the Antichrist over European Civilization, and the Land Beast is an apostate Pope in Europe. Surely, the time is short.
The topic is about the Beast of earth(Rev. 13:v.11), but with regards the Sea Beast you refer(Rev. 13:v.1), I think you know that sea means waters; the angel of the LORD said to John that the waters "which he sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues"-Rev.17:v.15. It was around year 95AD. John said: I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a Beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. By revelation we can see that this Beast of "sea" rose out up of the midst of the peoples and nations, and multitudes of all tongues, therefore, this Beast is a Gentile Beast. Israel had already been banned in the year 70AD or 25 years ago of their land, and was spread around the Earth,many fled to Rome.
How is this a response to what I said? I said I thought the Sea Beast is the Antichrist who is to come to preside over European Civilization. And you agree or disagree? You initially said my view is "Man's opinion--not revelation," and now you agree with me that the Sea Beast is a "Gentile Beast?" Or, are you distinguishing this "Gentile Beast" from what I called "European Civilization?" European Civilization is also a "Gentile Beast" that arises out of many nations.
John was upon the sand of the sea, and saw A BEAST rise up out of the sea (it means A BEAST rise up out of the waters; waters are peoples, and nations, and multitudes and all tongues), therefore, it's a Gentile Beast, but where did this Beast arise? In Rome-Italy, the headquarter of the devilish Roman Empire. European Civilization is specifically peoples, and nations, and multitudes of many tongues where the whore sits, which rides upon the Beast of sea /the Beast carrieth her, as is written in Revelation 17:v.15; 7 and 1-2, so what you wrote it has nothing to do with what is written in Revelation 13:v.1 to 10.
Again: Not me, but the angel of the LORD said to John that "the waters which he sawest, where the whore sitteth(that is the RCC which rides upon the Beast of sea, for better understanding, I add), are peoples, and multitudes, and nations of all tongues"- Rev.17:v.15. If we analyze more deeply, the Antichrist manifested itself since JESUS was born, this satanic spirit of Antichrist worked strongly first in Israel, mainly after JESUS started His Ministry preaching the Gospel of GOD's Kingdom and doing great and wonderful signs among the people. Except those who believed in JESUS, the others, Priests / Rabbi and their followers were guided by the satanic spirit of Antichrist until the crucifixion of our Lord JESUS, they preferred an evildoer Barabbas instead JESUS. The Apostles continued doing the same works of JESUS in Israel and they were also persecuted, placed in prisons or were killed, like Stephen. The Apostle Paul, whose name was originally Saul, was a Jew from a very orthodox line of Pharisaism, first he was known for his persecution of Christians, but Paul Apostle, author of the epistle to the Romans, after his conversion to Christianity, founded several Christian churches in Asia Minor and in Rome-Europe from the mid-30s to the mid-50s AD. But the true Church of the Lord in Rome, founded by Paul Apostle, apostatized itself by complete, and linked to the Roman Empire, and it turned itself the cradle of the Antichrist among Christians, and was elected a Pater Patrum-a Pope or the PaPacy-from around 67A.D to 76 A.D., and later the former true Church of the Lord in Rome was called Catholic Church and after Roman Catholic Church, and it is until the current time.
As I said earlier, "Mystery Babylon" is said to be a "mystery." That means, it is a euphemism for the city of Rome. John couldn't come out and say "Rome." He was a prisoner of Rome. Bad-mouthing Rome would get him killed. So he had to tell a kind of parable, with riddles.
Brother, you should remember that the Book of Revelation was a sealed or secret Book of GOD the Father. John only wrote what the Angel of our Lord JESUS commanded him to write. Rev. 1:v.1 - Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John. Forget your conjectures above, stay only in the Word of GOD. The Word is GOD. GOD is Truth.
No, I don't believe I should "know that!" The 7 sealed book was opened and revealed. The book of Revelation indicates it is a *revelation*--not a secret. It was to reveal things to the Church--not hide them!
There was no "7 sealed book" as you say, but only a book with seven seals. It sounds like you're a little confused about the book of Revelation.
Revelation 1:v. 1 explains that the book was in heaven with God: The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which GOD gave unto Him (around the year 95A.D.), to shew unto His servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by His angel unto His servant John.
The 2 riddles are a turn on the literal interpretation of 10 kings in Antichrist's European confederation. There will be a literal set of 10 kings out of European Civilization. 3 kings will be removed by Antichrist, leaving only 7 kings remaining. 10 horns and 7 heads, or 10 states and 7 leaders, with Antichrist presiding over them all.
Brother, you should verify if what you say is in accord what was revealed to John by our Lord JESUS and was showed by His angel to John. It is written that the Beast that John saw was risen up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his (7) heads the name of blasphemy. Even the ancient ROOTS of the Beast was revealed, which was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the Dragon gave him his Power, and his Seat, and great Authority.
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How is this a response to what I said? I said I thought the Sea Beast is the Antichrist who is to come to preside over European Civilization. And you agree or disagree? You initially said my view is "Man's opinion--not revelation," and now you agree with me that the Sea Beast is a "Gentile Beast?" Or, are you distinguishing this "Gentile Beast" from what I called "European Civilization?" European Civilization is also a "Gentile Beast" that arises out of many nations.
John was upon the sand of the sea, and saw A BEAST rise up out of the sea (it means A BEAST rise up out of the waters; waters are peoples, and nations, and multitudes and all tongues), therefore, it's a Gentile Beast, but where did this Beast arise? In Rome-Italy, the headquarter of the devilish Roman Empire. European Civilization is specifically peoples, and nations, and multitudes of many tongues where the whore sits, which rides upon the Beast of sea /the Beast carrieth her, as is written in Revelation 17:v.15; 7 and 1-2, so what you wrote it has nothing to do with what is written in Revelation 13:v.1 to 10.
Rome represents, to me, the entire Empire in ancient times, and European Civilization in modern times. So yes, it has *everything* to do with what is written in Rev 13.
But the true Church of the Lord in Rome, founded by Paul Apostle, apostatized itself by complete, and linked to the Roman Empire, and it turned itself the cradle of the Antichrist among Christians, and was elected a Pater Patrum-a Pope or the PaPacy-from around 67A.D to 76 A.D., and later the former true Church of the Lord in Rome was called Catholic Church and after Roman Catholic Church, and it is until the current time.
I have no idea what you're saying? You're saying the Roman Church was the "true Church," and then turned into an "Antichrist Church?" Doesn't make sense. Many great Church leaders emerged out of the Roman Church in future centuries. It was hardly an "Antichrist!"
As I said earlier, "Mystery Babylon" is said to be a "mystery." That means, it is a euphemism for the city of Rome. John couldn't come out and say "Rome." He was a prisoner of Rome. Bad-mouthing Rome would get him killed. So he had to tell a kind of parable, with riddles.
There was no "7 sealed book" as you say, but only a book with seven seals. It sounds like you're a little confused about the book of Revelation.
You call me confused? You think a 7 sealed book is not a book with 7 seals?
The 2 riddles are a turn on the literal interpretation of 10 kings in Antichrist's European confederation. There will be a literal set of 10 kings out of European Civilization. 3 kings will be removed by Antichrist, leaving only 7 kings remaining. 10 horns and 7 heads, or 10 states and 7 leaders, with Antichrist presiding over them all.
Brother, you should verify if what you say is in accord what was revealed to John by our Lord JESUS and was showed by His angel to John. It is written that the Beast that John saw was risen up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his (7) heads the name of blasphemy. Even the ancient ROOTS of the Beast was revealed, which was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the Dragon gave him his Power, and his Seat, and great Authority.
I gave you my view. It appears that any view that is other than yours is suspect and in danger of "hell fire?" Lighten up, and we can discuss things like civilized humans, or better yet, as brothers?
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So you think/"know" that the 1st Beast is the Papacy, the "earth" is Israel, and the Great Whore is Rome? That's a legitimate theory, but it is only a theory. I've given you my speculation on it, and it also is based on the Scriptures. The 1st Beast had 7 heads and 10 horns, which seems to relate to the 10 horns of the Antichrist in Dan 7. They emerge from the 4th Beast, which appears to be the Roman Kingdom. And so, I've identified it as European Civilization, which has had a long history of the Holy Roman Empire. It was the nation that had God's temporal Kingdom passed onto it from Israel. But like Israel, it is now apostasizing from the rules of that Kingdom.
Interpreting Daniel 7:v.7-8
verse 7 >>>After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth Beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it(Babylonian, Medo-Persian and Greek); and it had ten horns.<<<
As you and all know, the prophecy is revealing about the fourth Empire - the dreadful and terrible, and strong Roman Empire - diverse from the Greek, Persian and Babylonian kingdoms that were before it. As many know, the Roman Empire was specifically and genuinely a Gentile Empire, but there was also a completely alien being or nation in the Gentile Roman Empire: It was Israel. For this reason the prophecy reveals this appendix linked to the Roman Empire as 10 other independent powers, descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, prophetically represented by 10 horns. (Judah is another Kingdom separated from the nation or KINGDOM of Israel, and is not accounted in this prophecy). By the way, in Daniel 2, Israel (Israel is the clay-Isaiah 64:v.8) is represented by 10 toes of the feet of the Nebuchadnezzar's estatue.
verse 8 >>> I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.<<<
In the verse 8, the prophecy now is focusing the ten horns.
We know by prophecy that they represent Israel, descendants from Abraham among the Gentile nations, ruled by the Roman Empire, but from the midst of the 10 horns will rise up another very peculiar and little individual horn, but very powerful with his eyes (satanic vision) and a mouth speaking great things (blasphemy). I'm not sure how the little horn(the eleventh horn) will pluck up 3 horns from the first 10 horns by the roots, it seems he will erase them, maybe will be the tribe of Levy, Judah and Benjamin, staying only 7 tribes: Reuben, Gad, Aser, Nephthalin, Simeon, Issachar and Dan that is not accounted in Revelation 7, replaced by Joseph; By the way, the little horn may be one of the tribe of Dan, as prophesied Jacob:Genesis 49:v.16-17 - Dan shall be a serpent by the way, an adder in the path, that biteth the horse heels, so that his rider shall fall backward. Dan shall judge his people, as one of the tribes of Israel.
The little horn is the Man Beast like a lamb having two horns (a false lamb, course), actually a false messiah, an esoteric, kabbalistic and spiritist messiah (John 5:v.43 to 47 combined with 2 Thessalonians 2: 4and9-12), and he speaks as Dragon-Revelation 13:v.11-18. He will be enthroned in Jerusalém the holy city, called spiritually Sodom and Egypt, and he will rule Israel in the last week Daniel 9:v.27, and also will be the main guide of the esoteric, kabbalistic and SPIRITIST Judaism.
NOTE: In fact, sometimes Oseas takes a look of various Scriptures with some shared thoughts.
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Interpreting Daniel 7:v.9 -11
verses 9-10-11 >>> 9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before Him: thousand thousands ministered unto Him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before Him: the Judgment was set, and the books were opened.
11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.<<<
We are still analyzing and speaking of the prophecy within of the environment of Roman Empire from 146 B.C. until the current time. Two thousand years ago the Word was made flesh and JESUS was born, it was the fourth Day-Genesis 1v.16 combined with John 5:v.17- and a new Era started by the preaching of the Gospel of GOD's kingdom by/through JESUS, and after by His apostles and disciples until today.
Now see,"our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto His glorious body,according to the working whereby He is able even to subdue all things unto himself"-Phi.3:20-21, but the red Dragon, Satan, our Enemy, he also is in heaven,I mean he is in the same spiritual environment we are-Revelation 12:v.3-4- he was already Judged by our LORD and now will be Judged his world as a whole, he will be cast down from this celestial environment to the earth, but it by fight, by a War. For to the Judgment of the Devil's world already there are Thrones according the Word of GOD, and one specific and special Throne for the Ancient of days like the fiery flame. The red Dragon - Satan - will be furious, John heard the voice of the great words which the horn-the false messiah of the Jews-spake-verse 11 above:
Now, even now, from now on, the Judgment of all nations will be established according is written in the books, from Genesis to Revelation. Do you know what will be the consequences of GOD's wrath upon the Earth in the current time?
- the devilish nations will be angry, they will be furious because the WRATH of GOD that will fall upon them all - Revelation 11:v.18
- GOD will destroy them which destroy the earth - Revelation 11:v.18
- one of the 7 heads of the main partnership of the red Dragon, whose partner has 7 heads, and 10 horns, and upon his 7 heads a name of blasphemy -Revelation 13:v.1-, yeah, one of the 7 heads will be wounded to death, in fact a mortal wound. Then the esoteric and kabbalistic, and spiritist false messiah, the Man Beast like a lamb-Revelation 13:v.11- will give to his main partnership his Power, and his Throne in Jerusalem, and great Authority, and the wounded head of the FIRST Beast will be healed.
- the court which is without the temple...it will be given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months-Revelation 11:v.2.
- and the false messiah will exercise all the power of the FIRST Man Beast before him, and will cause the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the FIRST Man Beast, whose deadly wound was healed. (by the false messiah, course)-Rev.13:v.12
- and the false messiah will do great wonders, so that he will make fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men-Rev.13:v.13. (Note: This magic pirotechny of the esoteric / spiritist false messiah will be seen through the channel of TV - CNN and others)
- and will deceive them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the FIRST Beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the Man Beast, which had the wound by a Sword-the Word of GOD-and did live - Rev.13:v.14.
In LITERAL fulfillment of the verses above many many indescribable things will happen in whole earth from now on, course, it because the Ancient of days is already seated on His throne, and the Judgment is now given to the saints of the Most High; and the time came that the saints will possess the kingdom according Revelation 11:v.15 to 18.
Be careful and get ready
Note: In fact, sometimes Oseas takes a look of various Scriptures with some shared thoughts.
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As you and all know, the prophecy is revealing about the fourth Empire - the dreadful and terrible, and strong Roman Empire - diverse from the Greek, Persian and Babylonian kingdoms that were before it. As many know, the Roman Empire was specifically and genuinely a Gentile Empire, but there was also a completely alien being or nation in the Gentile Roman Empire: It was Israel.
Where do you get this from? I certainly don't "know it!"
In the verse 8, the prophecy now is focusing the ten horns.
We know by prophecy that they represent Israel, descendants from Abraham among the Gentile nations, ruled by the Roman Empire, but from the midst of the 10 horns will rise up another very peculiar and little individual horn
No way is the "Little Horn" Israel! The "Little Horn" is the Antichrist. If you're calling Israel the "Antichrist," well that's just plain weird. Nothing in the NT connects Israel to the Antichrist. Since he rises up out of the Roman Empire I would assume that Antichrist is not Jewish at all. He certainly isn't the nation of Israel. God's plan is, I believe, to save Israel!
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No way is the "Little Horn" Israel! The "Little Horn" is the Antichrist. If you're calling Israel the "Antichrist," well that's just plain weird. Nothing in the NT connects Israel to the Antichrist. Since he rises up out of the Roman Empire I would assume that Antichrist is not Jewish at all. He certainly isn't the nation of Israel. God's plan is, I believe, to save Israel!
JESUS Christ is a Jew, He was born in Israel, and the Antichrist started to manfest in Israel since the birth of JESUS.
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The Future Human Man, The Antichrist Seen Below In (Daniel) 11:37 Will Be A Hebrew/Jew In Decent, His Fathers Worshipped The True Hebrew (God Of His Fathers)
(Daniel) 11:37KJV
37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.
Examples: God Of His Fathers
(2 Kings) 21:22KJV
22 And he forsook the Lord God of his fathers, and walked not in the way of the Lord.
(2 Chronicles) 21:10KJV
10 So the Edomites revolted from under the hand of Judah unto this day. The same time also did Libnah revolt from under his hand; because he had forsaken the Lord God of his fathers.
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I wish I had more insight on the "image of the Beast," but I don't. It appears to be symbolic, and pertains to something the Antichrist constructs in Europe to make people choose against true Christianity. "Babylon" is a euphemistic symbol for Rome, since John at the time was under Roman detention. It was easily understood as such by Christians at that time, who had known of the 4 Beasts of Dan 7, the last of which was Rome and the first of which was Babylon.
The Antichrist alliance rides upon the Roman confederation, which is synonymous with present-day Europe. And so, the False Prophet will be, as the Reformers thought, an end-time apostasy of the Catholic Pope. I wouldn't say the Catholic Church is Antichristian presently. But it certainly has a mix within it that is false religion and opposed to true Christianity. At some point, the Catholic Church will have to decide which side of the fence it is on as an organization.
So this false Pope will establish something within its East-West territory to produce worship towards Antichrist and against true Christianity. I don't know what precisely it is, but it probably doesn't matter. If we are on the right side of the fence, we'll know it when we see it. And it will happen with the rise of Antichrist himself, who will consolidate 10 states under his power, presenting an unchallenged superpower on earth.
The most dreadful time-time of Apocalypse-is coming, I mean when the days will be shortened. Why? It because there will be two RELIGIOUS Beasts reining on the earth:
(1)The ancient Beast of sea -Revelation 13:v.1-9-,
and
(2) the next Beast, the ruthless Beast of earth-Revelation 13:v.11-18.
The ancient Beast of sea is TODAY a religious and satanic MONSTER having 7 heads and 10 horns, and upon his horns 10 crowns, and upon his (7) heads the NAME of BLASPHEMY. This is the FIRST BEAST whose monstrous body began to take shape in the first century AD and still remains. About this Beast of sea(sea means peoples, and nations, and multitudes of all tongues-in fact a Gentile Beast), the angel of the Lord said: Here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven MOUNTAINS, on which the WOMAN sitteth. And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space". (Actually 42 months or 1260 days)
The angel of the Lord reveals clearly the 7 heads are 7 MOUNTAINS, on which the WOMAN sits. Who is the woman if not the ancient church of Rome developed by Paul Apostle(epistle to the Romans) which apostatized, and after was denominated Catholic Church, and later Roman Catholic Church linked to the Roman Empire? Yes, it is the RCC surely. Which are these 7 MOUNTAINS on which the WOMAN-that is the RCC-sits?
Well, the Papacy, the FIRST Beast, it is already running since the beginning of the Church of our LORD JESUS Christ, i.e. from around two millenniums ago, and this FIRST Beast really built a strong and gigantic and satanic idolater religious structure in the 7 regions of the Earth: Europe, and Asia, Africa, Oceania(Australia), North America, Central America and South America.
That said, it is not hard for us to conclude who is this religious and satanic and blasphemer FIRST Beast, the MAN Beast of sea, a Gentile Beast, and in what places of the planet Earth he exercies his religious Power.
On the other hand, 7 heads are also 7 kings, 5 ARE FALLEN, and one IS, and the other IS NOT YET COME; and when he, the seventh and last king comes, he must continue a short space, in fact 42 months or 1260 days. I'm sure that the time is already advanced as far as prophecies are concerned, so I MUST SAY THAT even the sixth of the seven kings has already fallen. Behold, the election of the seventh king is at hand, and all things that the prophecy reveals in Rev.13, such as the manifestation of TWO BEASTS simultaneously, then will fulfill what is written: "Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the Devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
Regarding the MAN Beast of earth - Revelation 13:v.11-18- I intend to comment on the next post .
In Christ JESUS, KING of kings(kings made by Him), and LORD of lords
Some of this is certainly speculative, and I don't claim to have special knowledge--just thoughts or opinions. My feeling is that the Sea Beast is the Antichrist over European Civilization, and the Land Beast is an apostate Pope in Europe. Surely, the time is short.
As I said earlier, "Mystery Babylon" is said to be a "mystery." That means, it is a euphemism for the city of Rome. John couldn't come out and say "Rome." He was a prisoner of Rome. Bad-mouthing Rome would get him killed. So he had to tell a kind of parable, with riddles.
The 2 riddles are a turn on the literal interpretation of 10 kings in Antichrist's European confederation. There will be a literal set of 10 kings out of European Civilization. 3 kings will be removed by Antichrist, leaving only 7 kings remaining. 10 horns and 7 heads, or 10 states and 7 leaders, with Antichrist presiding over them all.
These literal 7 kings John turns into a riddle to clarify that he is speaking of Rome. The 7 kings become symbols of things John's readers knew would refer to Rome.
1st riddle: the 7 kings are 7 mountains. Rome was known as the 7-hilled city. And John later clarifies that this city rules over the nations, which was true in that region of the earth.
2nd riddle: the 7 kings are 7 successive kingdoms, which I believe was understood by John's readers to start with Egypt. Israel's history began with Egypt, and the Gentile nations that stood in opposition to them would then be, in succession, Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece, and Rome.
John designated the "present king," or the 6th kingdom, to be Rome without actually saying it. Everybody at the time knew that Rome was presently ruling. The 7th kingdom would be a 10 nation confederation, which ultimately would become the 8th kingdom, the Antichristian Empire.
(Jerusalem) Is The Whore, Mystery Babylon The Great.
The Levitical High Priest Dressing represents "The Woman", that is dressed in purple, scarlet, gold, and precious stones as seen below
(Revelation) 17:4KJV
4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
Yes "The Woman", The Levitical High Priest, Dressed In Purple, Scarlet, Gold, And Precious Stones
(Exodus) 28:15-20KJV
15 And thou shalt make the breastplate of judgment with cunning work; after the work of the ephod thou shalt make it; of gold, of blue, and of purple, and of scarlet, and of fine twined linen, shalt thou make it.
16 Foursquare it shall be being doubled; a span shall be the length thereof, and a span shall be the breadth thereof.
17 And thou shalt set in it settings of stones, even four rows of stones: the first row shall be a sardius, a topaz, and a carbuncle: this shall be the first row.
18 And the second row shall be an emerald, a sapphire, and a diamond.
19 And the third row a ligure, an agate, and an amethyst.
20 And the fourth row a beryl, and an onyx, and a jasper: they shall be set in gold in their inclosings.
(Jerusalem) is the seven hilled city, where the woman sits, not Rome as many falsely claim.
(Revelation) 17:9KJV
9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
List of cities claimed to be built on seven hills - Wikipedia
Jerusalem, Israel: Jerusalem's seven hills are Mount Scopus, Mount Olivet and the Mount of Corruption (all three are peaks in a mountain ridge that lies east of the Old City), Mount Ophel, the original Mount Zion, the New Mount Zion and the hill on which the Antonia Fortress was built.
The Roman Empire didnt exist to be guilty of the Prophets blood seen below, Jerusalem did.
(Revelation) 18:24KJV
24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.
(Matthew) 23:29-37KJV
29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
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(Jerusalem) Is The Whore, Mystery Babylon The Great.
The Levitical High Priest Dressing represents "The Woman", that is dressed in purple, scarlet, gold, and precious stones as seen below
(Revelation) 17:4KJV
4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
Yes "The Woman", The Levitical High Priest, Dressed In Purple, Scarlet, Gold, And Precious Stones
(Exodus) 28:15-20KJV
15 And thou shalt make the breastplate of judgment with cunning work; after the work of the ephod thou shalt make it; of gold, of blue, and of purple, and of scarlet, and of fine twined linen, shalt thou make it.
16 Foursquare it shall be being doubled; a span shall be the length thereof, and a span shall be the breadth thereof.
17 And thou shalt set in it settings of stones, even four rows of stones: the first row shall be a sardius, a topaz, and a carbuncle: this shall be the first row.
18 And the second row shall be an emerald, a sapphire, and a diamond.
19 And the third row a ligure, an agate, and an amethyst.
20 And the fourth row a beryl, and an onyx, and a jasper: they shall be set in gold in their inclosings.
I don't see any connection between the High Priest's clothing and the Great Whore? This same kind of thing is attributed to the King of Tyre...
Eze 28.13 You were in Eden, the garden of God; every precious stone adorned you: carnelian, chrysolite and emerald, topaz, onyx and jasper, lapis lazuli, turquoise and beryl. Your settings and mountings were made of gold; on the day you were created they were prepared.
(Jerusalem) is the seven hilled city, where the woman sits, not Rome as many falsely claim.
The prophecy of the Whore refers to her as the city that "rules over the kings of the earth." That fits Rome, but it doesn't fit Jerusalem. Jerusalem has had no such rule in this age, nor will it. You seem to be calling this Scripture passage "false?"
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(Jerusalem) is the seven hilled city, where the woman sits, not Rome as many falsely claim.
[/quote RandyPNW]
The prophecy of the Whore refers to her as the city that "rules over the kings of the earth." That fits Rome, but it doesn't fit Jerusalem. Jerusalem has had no such rule in this age, nor will it. You seem to be calling this Scripture passage "false?"
Randy, you are right. What prevails is the Word of GOD. The Word is GOD. The Woman is a church, Scriptures refers to the Roman Catholic Church according was revealed to John by the angel of the LORD - Revelation 17, as it is quoted below:
Here's the true interpretation: - Come hither; I will shew unto thee the Judgment of the Great Whore that sitteth upon many waters: ... full of names of blasphemy, having 7 heads and 10 horns. The 7 heads are 7 mountains, on which the woman sitteth...AND THERE ARE 7 KINGS; 5 ARE FALLEN, AND ONE(1) IS, AND THE OTHER ( THE SEVENTH ) IS NOT YET COME, AND WHEN HE COMES, HE MUST CONTINUE A SHORT SPACE. ...the 10 horns which thou sawest are 10 kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the Beast. ...The waters which thou sawest, where the Whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues. Revelation 17
In fact a Gentile and satanic Woman, which rides UPON the Man Beast of sea - The Papacy.
You asked: You seem to be calling this Scripture passage "false?" As you know Scripture is not false, absolutely, what is false is the interpretation of the pseudo"Truth", evidently.
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(Jerusalem) Is The Whore, Mystery Babylon The Great.
The Levitical High Priest Dressing represents "The Woman", that is dressed in purple, scarlet, gold, and precious stones as seen below
(Revelation) 17:4KJV
4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
Yes "The Woman", The Levitical High Priest, Dressed In Purple, Scarlet, Gold, And Precious Stones
(Exodus) 28:15-20KJV
15 And thou shalt make the breastplate of judgment with cunning work; after the work of the ephod thou shalt make it; of gold, of blue, and of purple, and of scarlet, and of fine twined linen, shalt thou make it.
16 Foursquare it shall be being doubled; a span shall be the length thereof, and a span shall be the breadth thereof.
17 And thou shalt set in it settings of stones, even four rows of stones: the first row shall be a sardius, a topaz, and a carbuncle: this shall be the first row.
18 And the second row shall be an emerald, a sapphire, and a diamond.
19 And the third row a ligure, an agate, and an amethyst.
20 And the fourth row a beryl, and an onyx, and a jasper: they shall be set in gold in their inclosings.
I don't see any connection between the High Priest's clothing and the Great Whore? This same kind of thing is attributed to the King of Tyre...
Eze 28.13 You were in Eden, the garden of God; every precious stone adorned you: carnelian, chrysolite and emerald, topaz, onyx and jasper, lapis lazuli, turquoise and beryl. Your settings and mountings were made of gold; on the day you were created they were prepared.
(Jerusalem) is the seven hilled city, where the woman sits, not Rome as many falsely claim.
The prophecy of the Whore refers to her as the city that "rules over the kings of the earth." That fits Rome, but it doesn't fit Jerusalem. Jerusalem has had no such rule in this age, nor will it. You seem to be calling this Scripture passage "false?"
We will disagree, the dressing of the high priest of purple, scarlet, gold, and precious stones matches the Whore of Revelation exactly
Jerusalem sits on 7 hills as shown, Rome didnt exist to be guilty of the Prophets blood as Revelation 18:24 clearly shows this as a requirement to classify
Jerusalem will rule over the kings of the earth, when the Antichrist takes his seat and is given power over the kings of the earth
Jesus Is The Lord
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Jerusalem sits on 7 hills as shown, Rome didnt exist to be guilty of the Prophets blood as Revelation 18:24 clearly shows this as a requirement to classify
Jesus Is The Lord
Jerusalem was destroyed in the year 70AD until 1948AD, it means 1878 years of severe punishments, and has nothing to do with the seven hills of Revelation 17. Rome also has 7 hills referred in Revelation. The angel of the LORD said: Revelation 17:v.9-10 KJV
9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when HE cometh, HE must continue a short space.
The events when this Scripture will LITERALLY fulfilled over time, these Scriptures do not say about only 7 mountains, but also 7 kings, 5 died, one is, and the seventh is not yet come. This prophecy has nothing to do with you are preaching, what is FAKE, yeah, this prophecy has nothing to do with Jerusalem that was destroyed since 70A.D. until 1948AD.
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(Jerusalem) Is The Whore, Mystery Babylon The Great.
The Levitical High Priest Dressing represents "The Woman", that is dressed in purple, scarlet, gold, and precious stones as seen below
(Revelation) 17:4KJV
4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
Yes "The Woman", The Levitical High Priest, Dressed In Purple, Scarlet, Gold, And Precious Stones
(Exodus) 28:15-20KJV
15 And thou shalt make the breastplate of judgment with cunning work; after the work of the ephod thou shalt make it; of gold, of blue, and of purple, and of scarlet, and of fine twined linen, shalt thou make it.
16 Foursquare it shall be being doubled; a span shall be the length thereof, and a span shall be the breadth thereof.
17 And thou shalt set in it settings of stones, even four rows of stones: the first row shall be a sardius, a topaz, and a carbuncle: this shall be the first row.
18 And the second row shall be an emerald, a sapphire, and a diamond.
19 And the third row a ligure, an agate, and an amethyst.
20 And the fourth row a beryl, and an onyx, and a jasper: they shall be set in gold in their inclosings.
(Jerusalem) is the seven hilled city, where the woman sits, not Rome as many falsely claim.
(Revelation) 17:9KJV
9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
List of cities claimed to be built on seven hills - Wikipedia
Jerusalem, Israel: Jerusalem's seven hills are Mount Scopus, Mount Olivet and the Mount of Corruption (all three are peaks in a mountain ridge that lies east of the Old City), Mount Ophel, the original Mount Zion, the New Mount Zion and the hill on which the Antonia Fortress was built.
The Roman Empire didnt exist to be guilty of the Prophets blood seen below, Jerusalem did.
(Revelation) 18:24KJV
24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.
(Matthew) 23:29-37KJV
29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
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I think that once we make up our minds about what narrative we want the Bible to support, we can make it mean anything we want.
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I think that once we make up our minds about what narrative we want the Bible to support, we can make it mean anything we want.
What does the Word of GOD say? The Word is GOD.
He that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all. And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; and no man receiveth his testimony. He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that GOD is true. -The Word is GOD - He whom GOD hath sent speaketh the words of God(like JESUS): for GOD giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him. The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand. He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the WRATH of GOD abideth on him. John 3:v.31-36