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Quote from: Slug1 on April 19, 2024, 11:50:05 AM

Quote from: ProDeo on April 17, 2024, 05:47:37 PM

I was astonished. And I thought, wait, is this not OT thinking? An eye for an eye. It was allowed in the OT, the old covenant. But Jesus turned it on, love your enemies, the new covenant. We are not allowed to pray like this. Am I right?

In Revelation 6:9+, those martyrs were expressing their emotions pretty point blank as David expressed himself. Plus, they're in the presence of God and are able to express as such.

It's complicated, is it in compliance with ? -

1. The Lord's prayer -  and forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors.

2. Rom 12:19 - Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God, for it is written, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.”

Also -

3. And about David's prayer - revenge on innocent kids ?

4. Ps 137:9 - Blessed shall he be who takes your little ones and dashes them against the rock!

Okay to pray ?

I can say a single word and that word is, in English... "Justice"

Justice takes many forms and since justice is in opposition of the actions of evil doers, such prayers by the martyrs in heaven and David is a call out to God for justice. Vengeance is only "a" form of justice, "judgement" is another and as we find in the context of Romans 12 and 13, "punishment" being another form of justice, usually means putting evil doers to death.

Many evil doers have gone unpunished and many want to see justice happen... even Christians.

As for the Ps 137:9 verse, Isaiah prophesied about Babylon (... edit, which the Psalm verse references... end edit). Evil doers, captured the Jews, enslaved them, destroyed Jerusalem, and it is foretold they (Babylon) will be captured and as detailed in the prophecy, even their infants are not spared.

Well, from the "justice" perspective, evil is dealt with and punishment happens. Those overcoming Babylon, being used by God to free the Jews, are blessed in the eyes of the Jews.

So basically my musing in the last paragraph of this post (quoted below) could be true, because after all it was a lie.

Quote from: me

One thought crossed my mind I am still not out, can the devil (the liar) break into your mind and put such a horrible thought (lie) into you? I doubt it because as we believe we have the Holy Spirit indwelling. But your mileage may vary.

I would look at this situation as satan putting a thought into Peter's mind and Jesus knew Peter's comment was not his own mind:

Matthew 16:21 From that time Jesus began to show to His disciples that He must go to Jerusalem, and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised the third day.

22 Then Peter took Him aside and began to rebuke Him, saying, [a]“Far be it from You, Lord; this shall not happen to You!”

23 But He turned and said to Peter, “Get behind Me, Satan! You are  an offense to Me, for you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men.” (NKJV)

• a) Matthew 16:22 Lit. Merciful to You (May God be merciful)
• b) Matthew 16:23 a stumbling block

My experience of the two groups is as follows:

Fundamentalist:

You have the following instructions: Convert to Christianity. Persuade other people to convert to Christianity. Die.

Don't ask questions, as this gets in the way of The Lord's work.

Charismatic:

Everywhere around you is uncertainty and lots of questions, which all means the occult revelation that comes from having the Holy Spirit in you and having my life experience is where you should look next. Please don't show that any questions have concrete, verifiable answers because that means that I haven't got any reason to tell people about the voice in my head, what I dreamt last night, the fact that I am older than some people, my testimony, my age, my marital status, an anecdote I heard when I was in a developing country doing voluntary work for two weeks, my having been on this earth longer than some of you, my age, a story about my children, something I heard at Greenbelt or Spring Harvest, my age, a nice feeling I had at a praise-and-worship meeting and my age.

As a youth, my experiences concerning church can fall within your description for Fundamentalism. And Lord forbid, you didn't have a KJV Bible despite (as a kid), not being able to understand much of the obsolete English words.

Later in life, I was led to a church that fell under the Pentecostal branding over the next 12 years, experienced varying degrees of what is labeled as "Charismatic.

From these years, I know there are balanced brethren that test the "spirits" and when such revelation is given, sock it away, study the scriptures in relation to the revelation, or through discernment have rebuked either a false teacher or at worse, rebuked the spirit behind a false prophet. Unfortunately, the "me, me, I want it NOW" brethren do run amok and not only instantly jump on any revelation, but run wild with the revelation. Then, when all comes crashing down, look for more revelation to jump on, and more and more. Seems some can be addicted to the "high" they receive during such so-called charismatic antics.

My season in a Pentecostal church is in the past, can I say I was hurt or that I witnessed many get hurt, yes. But due to many, many balanced brethren, who do operate in the gifts of the Holy Spirit in an ordered manner Glorifying to God, there are many Charismatics that don't fit in your description, while there are many, who do.

One thing I was blessed with, I am one to ask MANY challenging questions and during that 12 years in a Pentecostal (charismatic) church, MANY of my questions were answered. To the point that in time, I led Bible studies and I encouraged questioning and when needed, presented challenging questions to those in the class.

Presently I attend a church under American Baptist Churches USA and not only has my questioning continued during several Bible studies over the last 3 years, but in unity we dive into God's Word seeking understanding to any challenging question(s).

Don't allow a bad/negative experience push you away from God.

Drove 2,075 (round trip) miles to see my father last week. Always a blessing to be "with" family!

I get tired after the 2nd magazine and have to take a break for a snack and a nap.

I usually carried nine 30 round mags of 5.56 and six 15 round mags of 9mm while deployed and in the back of my mind, prayed I had enough ammo.

Quote from: Slug1 on February 21, 2024, 12:29:02 AM

Quote from: tango on February 19, 2024, 04:36:35 PM

Quote from: RabbiKnife on February 19, 2024, 09:55:24 AM

You would stick out like a sore thumb if you could actually put rounds on target…

That's why law-abiding gun owners only need 10 rounds. It's only the criminals who spray bullets indiscriminately figuring they'll hit something sooner or later. So people say anyway.

I'd rather EDC two 15 round mags for my G19, than three 10 round mags.

Only 15 rounds? I thought they'd be slightly bigger than that.

15 rounds is standard capacity for the G19, cept in most blue states maxed at 10 rounds. Extenders (illegal in most blue states) can add 1-3 rounds but printing under the shirt increases when concealed. Or, get G17 mags and then the choice can be 17, 19, 24, and even 33 rounds.

Quote from: RabbiKnife on February 19, 2024, 09:55:24 AM

You would stick out like a sore thumb if you could actually put rounds on target…

That's why law-abiding gun owners only need 10 rounds. It's only the criminals who spray bullets indiscriminately figuring they'll hit something sooner or later. So people say anyway.

I'd rather EDC two 15 round mags for my G19, than three 10 round mags.